Quote of the Day: Be Careful What You Wish For Edition

“While the ATF may be much maligned following the congressional hearings on Fast and Furious, it is the principal federal agency focused on enforcing gun laws. Enforcing existing gun laws is a middle ground where gun control advocates and gun enthusiasts can come together. To achieve the enforcement of existing gun laws, more agents and a better-funded ATF are necessary. Those who have made a sport of lambasting the ATF should consider what would happen if the ATF were eliminated. The natural agency to take the gun enforcement brief would be the FBI, which would be a much larger and more potent force on gun law enforcement.” – Nathan Jones

comments

  1. avatar Moonshine7102 says:

    “The natural agency to take the gun enforcement brief would be the FBI, which is the principal federal agency focused on shooting women in the back.”
    ——
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

  2. avatar jwm says:

    in my humble opinion the only reason for any federal involvement in gun laws is the import and export of guns from other countries and smuggling of guns. since the atf got involved in the illegal smuggling of guns they should be disbanded. it certainly would serve as a wake up call to the other agencies, do not break the law to enforce the law. as for domestic gun laws we should have one federal law, the 2a.

    1. avatar Totenglocke says:

      This is dead on. Though, I actually don’t see why we even need to worry about importing guns at all, just have checks on where they’re being exported to so that we know they’re not being sent to say, Kreblakistan, to murder civilians.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        the only reason to have checks on the imported guns is to make sure the tariffs are being properly paid. i’m not a scholar but my understanding is that the main source of revenue for the feds is supposed to be import/export tariffs. i won’t feel insulted if someone corrects meon this if i’m off the mark.

        1. avatar Felix says:

          Tariffs haven’t been the main source of revenue since the income tax was instituted 100 years ago.

          Here’s a useful site: http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/year_revenue_1880USmn_13ms1n_404146#usgs302

          Revenue for 1880 was $366.8M. Of that, customs was $186.5M, just a hair under half.

          Revenue for 2010 was $2162B. Of that, customs was $25B, a bit over 1%.

  3. avatar Silver says:

    “Enforcing existing gun laws is a middle ground where gun control advocates and gun enthusiasts can come together.”

    Speak for yourself. Infringement is infringement, period.

    And calling us “gun enthusiasts” rather than, say, “gun rights advocates” hurts us.

  4. avatar ST says:

    “To achieve enforcement of gun laws, a de-funded ATF and transfer of responsibilities to local law enforcement makes sense”

    Seriously. The Feds aren’t locking anyone up for straw purchases and background check violations anyhow, and the Brady System is regularly letting mentally ill people buy firearms, so the entire enforcement structure may as well be shut down.

    1. avatar ExNuke says:

      You left out that when the FBI wants a KNOWN FELON to buy guns that they are the ones running the system. That’s not a failure, it’s their favorite feature.

  5. avatar Lt Dave says:

    This agency has proven a history of abusing it’s authority, breaking trust with the citizens of this country, an absolute fear of going after felons owning or possessing firearms and has actually engaged in the trafficking of firearms that has resulted in the death of American law enforcement personnel. They have created crimes where none existed (Ruby Ridge) and unnecessarily showboated their tactical teams at budget hearing times (Waco).
    This agency is rogue, must be disbanded and it’s personnel’s actions reviewed for criminal prosecution.

    Period.

    1. avatar brewerbob says:

      Created crimes and comedy. Several years ago, the atf tried to prove ammonium perchlorate based rocket propellant was spontaneously explosive. They couldn’t get a slug of propellant to combust so they wrapped some detcord around the slug. Just made smaller pieces.

      The atf also tried to show how dangerous model rockets are. They managed to violate all range safety rules and torched the van they were using as a launch platform.

      The atf also fed (wrong)info to Schumer and Lautenburg at a news conference. The two douche-bag idiots went on to claim that the high powered rocket behind them could shoot down an aircraft at 20,000 feet and kill a tank at 5 miles. I built that same rocket kit. Actually overbuilt it and had problems getting it past 8,000 feet. But, if that rocket could do what they claim, why is the defense department spending billions on guided rockets that don’t always work when they could spend just $100 per rocket kit?

      The atf should be shut down and the incompetents salaries clawed back as punishment for their idiocy.

      1. avatar pat says:

        Throw in Ruby Ridge and the ‘sniper’ who put the 50 in Vicki Weavers eye. Sawed off shotguns? Get rid of the killers. Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms are fun….morons.

  6. avatar Zealot says:

    Isn’t Jones’ entire statement effectively the same as an abusive mother telling her child, “If it’s not ME beating you, then it will be your father. And he hits MUCH harder so be thankful.”

    1. avatar DJ says:

      I thought the exact same thing.

  7. avatar Skyler says:

    I dream everyday of how good our lives would be without the ATF. Just think of the kittens that wouldn’t be stomped to death.

  8. avatar Viper26 says:

    I have ZERO problem with Federal Law Enforcement being concentrated under ONE agency. Despite the expansion of that agency that would be needed to take on those roles, it would still save taxpayer dollars in the end. It would eliminate the inter-agency BS that the DHS and Patriot Act were supposed to solve but didn’t, and would ensure a more uniform standard. On top of that, the agency has a much better reputation for professionalism then either the BATF, the DEA, ICE, or any of the myriad of others, and they defend that reputation.

    That being said, I agree with whoever above said it, MOST gun issue enforcement should be at the State and Below levels. Exceptions would be for Customs, Borders, Smuggleing, and huge interstate issues.

    DHS is another agency that needs to go away……….

  9. avatar Cliff says:

    Alcohol: Since the repeal of Prohibition there is no need for a federal bureacracy to control it. Defund it.
    Tobacco: Legal product. Anyone seen the 10th Amendment laying around? Defund it.
    Firearms: The Coast Guard and Customs should be in charge of the import/export markets, whether legal or not. Defund it.
    See how easy that is?

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      I don’t see the ATF arresting drinks drivers, so we could defund them for that. Tobacco is legal for 18 plus, and smoking a Cuban cigar, God forbid, does not require any federal LEO action. So there’s a cost saving. I don’t see ATF at local ranges, nor do I want to. Almost all of the local ranges in the SoCal area have employees who open carry, so law enforcemen there is borderline superfluous. If a range ejects a patron, they’ll either be on their way or arrested by the local PD. Therefore, the need for ATF, at the considerable expense of taxpayers, continues to escape me.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        off topic here, but you bring up the cubans. isn’t it about time we rethought our embargo on them. never been a commie lover but how much of a threat to us can they be,

        1. avatar Angel says:

          Google “Cuban Missile Crisis” and if you don’t think the Russians are still helping them, think again. Look how helpful they are being to the poor Syrian dictatorship that is about to fall. What the government here should do is make even bigger restrictions on Cuba. The only reason that Cubans themselves don’t revolt like the Syrians is because they are living cushy lives thanks to all the tourism and money coming from the US. Trust me, the last thing we need is a bunch of communist that hate our living guts 90 miles away.

        2. avatar Accur81 says:

          I just love (pictures of) Cuban cigars. I don’t have enough information to have an informed decision.

        3. avatar DJ says:

          Cuba is the only aircraft carrier the Russians have.

        4. avatar Cody says:

          Sometimes its easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar. Just sayin.

  10. avatar Tarrou (Joshua Grabow) says:

    But who will frame innocent people so they can shoot their wives and children ? Who will burn dozens of small kids to death in order to prevent their “abuse”? Won’t someone think of the CHILLLUNS?!!?!?!??! God, if we don’t have the ATF out there running guns to the Sinaloans and pioneering whole new areas of entrapment and use-of-force abuse, we’d have to rely on the FBI to do that! Oh the Humanity! I tell you what, for all those out there who like the BATFE scum, I’d be willing to sell guns to drug lords and shoot random children at a severe discount! Say, half their budget? Just half a billion dollars my way, and I’ll make sure that the sterling reputation of that fine agency doesn’t change a bit.

  11. avatar ryan says:

    The ATF and the FBI come from the same source. They are agencies of the federal government. If you want to get rid of one, then you’ll need to get rid of the other as well. The world will be a better place no doubt.

  12. avatar Ralph says:

    You know something’s happening but you don’t know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

    I wish for idiots like Nathan to STFU. Does that make me a bad person?

    1. avatar jwm says:

      no ralph, no it doesn’t. i realize your statement required no answer but i thought a simole +1 wasn’t good enough.

    2. avatar Snachnim says:

      You are correct Ralph. So plus one for you.
      Actually the DHS, ATF, and ICE should all be disbanded. Those should simply be departments of the FBI.
      I feel the reason for their creation was to add to in-needed government making it hard to manage. When I say manage I mean control. Executive orders can be given with out legislation which vastly affect the agencies power. If this was consolidated back to how it should be, oversight would be much easier and would curtail the ability for POTUS to simply give them unheard of powers over law aboding citizens.
      The EPA is an excellent example of power that is out of control. The cap and trade legislation was shot down by the house. So the POTUS, through executive order gave the EPA the power they would have gotten through the cap and trade act. Of course there were no votes on this at all.
      I agree in protecting the environment for a number of reasons, but not to the point that companies shut down due to being overburdened with legislation.
      The ATF long gun registry or notification system for boarder FFL dealers is another example. Sure I don’t want bad guys to get guns either but simply pushing things through executive order with out our voices being heard within governing is tyranny.
      So I think this person is miss guided. We wish to be law abiding and be given equal rights same as everyone. Allowing these agencies to go rogue and act above the law is unecceptible in our minds. Lending them any credit is gross negligence and acceptance that those behavior is ok. Which it is not!

  13. avatar Jim March says:

    NO. We would be better off dealing with the FBI.

    Here’s why.

    When a law enforcement agency “specializes” in one particular subset of “crime”, they tend to take the seriousness of that “crime” far out of proportion. Because any violation of that particular class of crime is seen as a “personal insult” to that sort of specialty cop.

    An FBI agent would realize that a shotgun with a cut-down stock for the use of a small but responsible 10-year-old kid that ends up at 27.5″ is not in fact anywhere near as serious as a bank robbery. I would not at all trust an ATF agent to make that distinction.

    Here’s a real-world example I know of that happened to a friend who used to live in Southern California.

    The guy had a breakup with his girlfriend. She decided to turn him in for his “crime”. She reported said crime to the local police who laughed at her. She then got “smart” and called the California Fish and Game department…who had long since mis-classified the European Domestic Ferret as a wild animal and banned it from California on that basis. Yeah. Guy had a pet skinnykitty, aka “carpet shark”, aka ferret.

    So this F&G Warden comes out, knocks on his door, demands to see his ferret. He says “F U, get a warrant”. This crazy lady warden actually goes and tries to get a warrant. Two different judges laugh at her…their attitude was, correctly, “go solve a real problem”.

    So does she give up? Hell no. SHE LAUNCHED A TWO-DAY STAKEOUT FROM ACROSS THE STREET WITH BINOCULARS LOOKING FOR A SMALL FUZZY FACE TO POKE OUT FROM BEHIND A CURTAIN. Seriously. So the guy’s in a panic, gets on the Ferrets Anonymous mailing list, WTF do I do? Somebody else called the media, who sent a TV news camera down to interview this nutcase with a badge, “are you actually trying to stake out a pet houseweasel?”. She finally gave up.

    My point is, only a “specialist cop” of this sort would get their priorities so far out of whack. And this is exactly what’s happened to the BATF: limited to certain specialized areas of law, they take violations of those laws (or more commonly, their own damned regulations) WAY, way too seriously for the actual “harm” involved (if any).

    Cops should be much more generalized to prevent these psychological distortions in the real-world importance of various “crimes”.

    And by the way: if you ever need an example of just how stupid the prohibitionist mindset is, look no further than the California ferret ban, in which the California government tries to maintain their monopoly power on weaseliness. Go into any pet supply house in California and you’ll find little hammocks, triangular litterpans, food supplements, kibble and other examples of “ferret paraphenalia”. Seriously. The Ferrets Anonymous website even publishes maps on how to get into California on back roads bypassing the agricultural inspection checkpoints where a lot of ferrets get caught.

    1. avatar Todd S says:

      That’s some serious dedication to ferrets.

  14. avatar Lt Dave says:

    Specialization can be a very bad thing in law enforcement (my former profession). When you make a detail, division or agency responsible for a smaller area of crime, they will quickly run out of targets and begin creating their own.

    BATF is a great example of this. They enticed Randy Weaver into cutting down a shotgun where no crime existed because they wanted an informant to penetrate a group where they “thought” crime might exist.

    The above example about the carpet shark is an excellent example. Would this fem animal cop have taken any action against a vehicle burglar in front of her if observed? Probably not.

    Moving away from a specialist to a generalist in law enforcement allows better judgement and a closer to “public good” perspective for triage of resources.

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