UK: Six Knife Murders Per Week

“SIX people a week are stabbed to death on the streets of Broken Britain,” the sun.co.uk reports. “Latest figures show a shocking 332 fatalities in a year — the worst toll since records began . . . The latest figures show knife deaths have almost doubled in the last 30 years. The total is up 58 on two years ago and 80 more than in the last year of Tory rule. There are also 60 non-fatal knife crimes daily, with 22,000 recorded in the year.” So we can expect the UK to being the process of restoring gun rights then, right? Nope. To turn an old British expression on its head, they’re finishing as they mean to start . . .

“Its a shame that knife crimes has increased so much a Britain and the police and politicians has choosen not to do much about it,” commentator redstar19756 writes. “The authorities are showing more concern in hosting the 2012 Olympics! Time to get your act together Britain!”

Look for more draconian anti-knife laws, as gun rights continue to fade into The Land of Hope and Glory’s collective unconscious.

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

124 Responses to UK: Six Knife Murders Per Week

  1. avatarMotoJB says:

    Quick! Ban all bladed objects in the UK!!!

    • avatarSanchanim says:

      Plastic knives are all you get folks!!!

      • avatarsavaze says:

        You’d be surprised on how much damage you can do with plastic or rubber knives. I taught a general self defense class and had to drop the knife section from it for that reason.

    • avatargreat unknown says:

      actually, the British recently proposed [and perhaps passed] a law banning pointed knives.

      of course, a competent knife fighter can do an enormous amount of damage with the edge – that’s what it’s there for. In the pictures above, the attacker should be constantly slicing at the blocking arm instead of trying to stab the torso of the defender. first, it’s closer. second, it’s harder to defend. and third, the bleeding from multiple little cuts soon becomes life-threatening.

      • avatarGS650G says:

        They were pushing the ban (true story) in response to the knife culture in the UK (their expression) and were quite serious about it.
        The UK government is trying to push a string it seems.

      • avatarFelix says:

        Friends went to Scotland (and England :-) several years ago for bagpiping reasons, and had to show their passports and be registered to buy the ceremonial small knives which are part of the fancy kilt dress. They were told by the clerk that this applied to all pointed knives, kitchen, kilt, or otherwise.

        • Sorry but none of the above are true.
          I should know as I live in the UK & knives are one item I sell through my business.
          The Royal College of Surgeons suggested banning pointed knives & even had someone design as supposed alternative – which was promptly derided by chefs, butchers & other professional knife users.
          At no point was a Bill placed before Parliament.

          The laws on knives here are strict but they aren’t yet as idiotic as our firearms laws.

  2. avatarjwm says:

    people that are determined to kill will get the job done. murder was not invented with gunpowder.

    • avatarAharon says:

      It started with a rock. Actually it started with a thought or rather a feeling of bitterness, envy, rejection, and possibly opportunity in one man’s head. Cain attacked his brother Abel who was taken down possibly because he had poor situational awareness and was unarmed.

      • Hahaha, back-to-back awesome quotes:

        “Murder was not invented with gunpowder.”

        “Cain attacked his brother Abel who was taken down possibly because he had poor situational awareness and was unarmed.”

        I was barely done savoring the first when I busted out laughing at the second!

  3. avatarST says:

    You heard it here first.

    “2028 UK Tribune: British Parliament considering law banning cinderblocks”
    ‘In reaction to a shocking home invasion where a criminal gang murdered a family with bricks, the British government has promised a legislative response. Since knives were outlawed in 2014, murders with bricks and stones have increased 40% over the last 14 years. The English Bricklayers Union has promised to fight the law’s enactment. If the bill is signed, buildings made of stone will require annual inspection to ensure they aren’t being turned into weapons”

    • avatarSwarf says:

      Nicely done.

    • avatarGS650G says:

      News 2029 – Britain bans gravity

      Gravity was sited as a major risk today since it accelerates objects at the ridiculous rate of 9.8m/s allowing hoods to drop objects on people from heights .”We will eliminate this threat by attacking the gravity culture once and for all”

      • avatarV.Mcann@ says:

        I support reasonable limits on acceleration due to gravity.

        • avatarG.R. Mead says:

          “Reasonable” limits are not enough.
          This scourge on the great mass of the British people has dragged the entire country down for far too long now. It must be reversed and done away with entirely.

  4. avatarSilver says:

    But…but…gun-grabbers told me that banning guns would create a violence-free utopia where crime was unimaginable! Perhaps I should rethink this anti-gun stance that I’ve been brainwashed into believing…

    Oh, look, Idol’s on.

    • avatarSanchanim says:

      Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!!!

    • Nobody ever said that, Silver. You’ve become tedious with those wild exaggerations. Isn’t what we really do say enough for you to argue with? FLAME DELETED

      • avatarDex says:

        if it was a wild exaggeration then nobody would try to ban guns after weighing the advantages of private gun ownership. Disarming a population is thriving on the idea of utopian wishful thinking, all the while being completely ignorant of the human condition: the strong do as they will and the weak suffer what they must.

      • avatarPaul says:

        Wow. Imagine that. MikeB calling someone else “tedious.”

      • avatarSilver says:

        Aw, I’m sorry I got your feathers ruffled mikey, I didn’t mean to upset our cute wittle anti mascot. Hm, what was it you said a week or two ago about people who get easily riled because of their insecurity in their views? Funny, really.

        And I think in order for there to be an “argument” with what antis say, there has to be a valid or logical point to actually debate. Otherwise, it’s just me/us soundly trouncing and disproving your views and laughing at your own “wild exaggerations.” Make a decent point some day and maybe I could address that.

        • I didn’t notice that I got riled. Are you using your super powers again, Silver?

        • avatarMoonshine7102 says:

          Because it wasn’t you. The whole tone of that post was different.

        • avatarSilver says:

          I’d tend to count a post that ends in FLAME DELETED as approaching the “riled” end of the spectrum.

          I wish I did have super-powers, like being able to conjure up false claims, misleading statistics, and agenda-driven lies at will without having any conflict of conscience. Can you teach me?

        • avatardale says:

          UK has 99% lower rate of gun murders (ie per capita) than US.
          UK has overall murder rate 80% lower than US.
          UK knife murder rate is about same as US.

          Tally:

          UK if it had same gun homicide rate at US, would have about 2000 more gun murders than it actually has (2012: Us gun homicides 8855; UK: 14)

          Here is actual 2012 data (remembering that data, in this case, is a murder)”

          Total murders UK: 14 gun, 332 knife (other 204) for total of 552.
          Total murders US: 12,765 US data is from FBI website), gun 8855, knife 1589, other a little over 2000)

          Murder rate (per 100K): UK 1.2
          US 4.8

          IF UK had same gun murder rate as US, it would have the same murder rate.

          Conclusion: gun free UK has 14 gun murders and 332 knife murders in 2012
          gun rich US has 8,855 gun murders; 1589 knife murders in 2012.

          Gun regulation in UK results in 99% fewer gun murders and about the same in knife and other forms of murder. UK has overall 75% lower murder rate, by all means, than US.

          What is the difference? UK has few guns and strict laws; US has most guns and in 38 states private/gunshow sales require no records or background checks. So big time dealers can claim they are private because no records are kept.

          What is the result: Uk has 75% fewer murders than US, due to absence of guns.

          Net conclusion: the absence of guns (as in Japan as well, with 99% lower gun and 80% lower murder rate), which can be called nearly gun free zones) results dramatically reduced murder rates (and attempted murder as well, as well as suicides and accidental deaths. Every day the US has 4 times more murders per capita than the UK. It has 99% more gun homicides (guns being the most efficient means of murder and suicide) and an equal percent of other murders, with a total of only 1/4 of the murders the US has.

          Facts cannot be dismissed; they represent human lives. If you dismiss the facts, you dismiss human life. When Joe the Plumber said “Your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights…” he showed just such a disregard for human life by setting up a false choice between unlimited gun sales to anyone and protecting the Constitution.

          The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

        • avatarMike the Limey says:

          Whilst the statistics you quote are correct, I find your conclusions to be both erroneous & based on a false premise; namely that UK & US societies are broadly the same.
          Far from it.
          You also fail to mention the rates of violent crimes & robberies in the UK, which are double those for the US.
          Consider this too: Mass shootings in the UK last longer & on average have twice as many victims as those in the US.
          Armed citizens can & do prevent hundreds & possibly thousands of crimes in the US every day, with many of them potentially life threatening.
          As a citizen & resident of the UK I’m happy to state that I feel safer from physical harm in the US than I do here at home & that despite living in one of the areas with the least violent crimes (except for one recent mass murder that killed 13 of course – despite all those wonderful restrictions we have….)

        • avatardale says:

          Come on Mike, I could use 33 other advanced nations like Canada, Australia, Germany all with different cultures but all with the same data and results: Germany has 95% lower gun murder rates than the US, Canada has 1/3 the gun homicide rate, etc etc.

          100% correlation with 35 samples is hard to dismiss.

          Even so, UK and US culture are very similar, in fact American culture grew out of English language, common law, and political philosophy. Brits have the same love of movies and videos, have the same economic problems (poverty, growing inequality, etc), and yet have radically different rates of murder, as do the other 33 developed nations.

          You clearly are not open to the facts, since I made clear that the average of the 33 nations, including those with similar cultures like Canada and Australia all have lower murder rates and strict gun laws.

          Before Australia’s latest gun law reforms, it had 13 mass shootings (the laws were provoked by the last one): since then, Australia has had no mass shootings, and nearly a 2/3 decline in gun murders.

          If cultural differences between the UK and the US explained why they have 75% lower rate of murder (99% lower rate of gun murder), then how can you explain away the fact that the nearly same statistics obtain for all the other 33 advanced nations.

          The constants are: strict gun laws correlated 100% with low murder rates in 34 nations, including the US which has seen a 50% drop in gun murders and 30% drop in overall murders since the Brady Act was passed. The evidence is overwhelming, powerful, and 100% consistent. Only an idiot would dismiss such solid evidence and buy into an argument which leaves us powerless to do anything about the 32,000 gun a deaths a year in the US.

        • avatarMike the Limey says:

          The US is not & never has been a nation built on European standards.
          YES, the fledgeling nation chose to adopt many parts of English Law for its constitution (including recognising a citizen’s natural Right to keep & bear arms) but its outlook both then & subsequently is far different & makes any attempt to compare social attitudes & actions somewhat moot.
          You didn’t address the far higher rate of violent crime in the UK (& in Australia post Port Arthur). Why do you think that might be?
          Compare the US to other American nations & apart from Canada, it has the LOWEST firearms homicide rate on the continent.
          That is far more relevant than comparisons with Europe or Australia.
          How about all those defensive firearms uses I mentioned?
          That’s something else you failed to address.
          As for suggesting the Brady Act is responsible for the fall in US firearms homicides: Now you really ARE grasping at straws. The number of firearms in circulation has almost doubled since it was introduced & the population has grown greatly.
          A far more likely explanation is the removal of tetra-ethyl lead from gasoline, as falling crime rates VERY closely track the timeline of this happening across multiple nations.

        • avatardaleut h says:

          Mike, I have heard this myth before about how the UK, with 75% lower murder rate and 99% lower gun homicide rate, is 4 times more violent than the US. Someone is lying to you, and it isn’t me.

          In the Uk, the metrics for a violent act are radically different from in the US. Many acts which in the US are not considered violent are so considered in the UK; in addition, in the US, to have a violent crime counted, it must be reported, investigated and determined to have been a violent crime. Many crimes fall through the cracks.

          In the UK, the mere report of a violent crime (ie what in the US is called an allegation) is reported.

          In addition, if you study the research on US and British crime, as I have for many years, you will find that most “violent crimes” in the UK are minor and the vast majority involve no physical injury.
          If someone pushes you at a party, you can report that and it is counted as a violent crime, along with a knife murder: 2 violent crimes.

          In the US, the standards of violence are much higher: there must be injury and it must be determined that it was caused by a criminal action.

          I have many times documented all this, but I have had to repeat it so many times I will ask you to investigate the differences in what are called crimes of violence in the UK and the US.

          It makes no sense that nation with 1/4 the murders is 4 times more violent. And the reason it does not make sense is that crime records in the US and the UK are based on drastically different standards. I am not making this up. You can check it out.

          If there is 4 times more violent crime in the UK, does it make sense that in most cases, the police do not carry firearms?

          In fact, the US has far more violent crimes in the true sense of causing serious injury and, of course, murder is the gold standard of violent crimes.

          you have been had by the propagandists of the gun industry. I have read the very reports you are relying on, but they do not tell you that they are comparing apples (I girlfriend calls in to police that her boyfriend shoved her….no injuries but she is angry enough to report it–in the UK that is a violent crime and most violent crimes in the UK do NOT involve serious injuries) to oranges, where in the US, a violent crime involves actual violence and injury and is based on more than an allegation but an investigation which determines that a violent crime has occurred.

          The idea that a nation with 25% of the murders is 400% more violent is too good to be true for those who make their money selling guns and wishing to show that the gun free zone of the UK, with 14 gun murders in 2012 (US has 8,855) is actually 4 times more violent.

          One more example: many acts of sexual harrassment in the UK such as touching a person or making advances can be considered acts of sexual violence. They would not have this status in the US and would not be recorded as violent crimes.

          Don’t be fooled by people comparing shoving or fistfights or patting someone’s butt with murder being considered the same.

          Nationmaster.com is an independent collector of crime stats.

          Here is what they report:
          US has 26 times more prisoners than the UK. If UK has 4 times more violent crimes, why do they have only 148 prisoners per 100k (ranked 101 in world) while US has 716, or 500% more.

          Does it add up:? UK has 400% more violent crimes but US has 500% more prisoners (per capita).
          Is it that the UK lets most of its violent criminals go free or that the defintition of a violent criminal is vastly different?

          Nationmaster compares UK violent crime rate to US:
          UK has 1.17 per 100K, ranking 95th in the world in terms of murder
          US has 4.75, 400% more, ranking 43d (tops among advanced nations).

          In fact, since nations do use very different metrics and define violence very differently (spitting might be a violent crime in one system, not in another, etc)

          Civitas.org reports that the UK has a slightly lower rape rate than the US (4% lower in UK). UK has about 3% more robberies than US. UK has a much higher rate of assaults than the US but this is the exact instance when different definitions and requirements for reporting make direct comparisons impossible. Japan, another nearly gun free zone, has about 99% fewer assaults (I do not know what metrics they use) than either the UK or the US.

          Here is an interesting commentary that discusses the issue of violence metrics in the US and UK by a libertarian blogger. It is worth reading for his insight and factual analysis.

  5. avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

    Boston’s got a lot in common with the dumb ass brits, cuz they’re well on their way to banning knives. They should also ban swords so that only criminals will have all the guns, knives and swords, and the law abiding citizens will be unarmed lil sheep.

    • avatardale says:

      If only criminals have weapons in the UK (or Japan), why do they have 99% fewer gun murders than the US? In 2006, Japan had 2 gunfire murders; in 2012, the UK had 14. If only the criminals have guns in a nearly gun free zone, why doesn’t gun violence go up? Is it because guns are very hard to access and so not only the gun murder rate declines (99%) but the overall murder rate is 75% lower than the US.

      Among 34 advanced nations, the average murder rate is 80% lower, the average gun murder rate is 90% lower. If only criminals have guns in these nations with very strict gun laws, why are the gun violence rates so low?

      Unlike bats and knives, which require contact and give a victim the opportunity to run, fight back, etc, guns operate all to efficiently at a distance so that running or fighting back are nearly impossible.
      Guns are very efficient at killing…so if you want to reduce the killing, reduce the weapons which are most efficient. Do it universally so that guns are just not as available. The gun violence will NOT go up, as the evidence from all 34 other advanced nations demonstrates.

      Strict gun laws in advanced nations are 100% correlated with lower gun and overall murder rates, lower injury and accidental death and injury rates, and lower suicide rates. With suicide, which in the US is 60% of gun killings, guns are 90% “successful,” whereas the most common method attempted is drugs, which are only 3% successful, meaning that 97% can be treated and rescued.

      Guns, like cars, are very dangerous (this year, gun deaths are finally more than car deaths) and therefore, like cars, should be registered from manufacture to sale or transfer, with strict safety provisions, and with owners going through background checks and being tested periodically.

      Having a registered and licensed car in no ways limits your freedom to use a car; rational gun laws would not take away any basic rights but they would make us all a hell of a lot safer.

      More guns in the family, among states, and among developed nations means more gun violence, but nations like Germany and Switzerland have many guns and yet 95% lower gun murder rates due to very strict regulation.

      The 2nd Amendment was obsolete as soon as the US had a significant standing army and no longer needed an armed citizenry to defend the country or put down insurrections. Today, it has been hijacked and its meaning (guns rights are conditioned on membership in govt controlled militia) by the gun manufacturers, who use propaganda tools such as the NRA, which opposes universal background checks, mandatory safety locks, smartguns, and many other features which even their membership supports. Their bottom line is to sell more guns. They have perverted the Constitution for the crassest and most dangerous reasons: profit at the expense of human life.

      I blame the NRA, who serves the gun industry, for a good portion of the 31,000 gun deaths a year in the US. They place corporate profits above human life and that is horrifically criminal. I saddens me to see ordinary citizens fall for this propaganda and link their liberty with the lack of rational gun laws at the price of being the most violent and dangerous of all advanced nations by a huge degree.
      It’s truly tragic.

  6. avatarAPBTFan says:

    Maybe they should adopt a blanket rule that everyone needs to be reprogrammed as seen in A Clockwork Orange. Mass brainwarshing and no more violence. I could see England as being the first to contemplate it.

  7. avatarThomas Paine says:

    if i remember correctly, any knife over 3″ is illegal to carry. Actually, any ‘offensive’ weapon is illegal to carry. The notion of a self defense weapon implies that it is an admission that you will use it ‘offensively’ and is therefore illegal. Effed up, huh?

    I was watching a documentary on the Yardie gangs, and they all carried this type of meat cleaver knife. Maybe to circumvent the law somehow i guess.

  8. avatarjwm says:

    isn’t self defense basically illegal in england? and what happened to the brits, they once had enough pride and courage to stand up to hitler.

    • avatarMark N. says:

      Self defense is legal but just barely. One cannot employ “excessive force,” and whether excesive force was used is a jury question. Apparently using force greater than that used by the aggressor is “excessive.” But I think you can get away with yelling “Cease and desist, man!”

      • avatarJeff O. says:

        “Say there Chap, might’nt I trouble you to please stop knifing me in the eye? No? Well, here’s a cup of lukewarm tea, would you like cream and sugar before I splash you with it?”

      • avatarJuanCudz says:

        It’s not even really a jury question as they tend to be instructed by a judge, so it’s the judge’s opinion as to what is excessive force. And given the private estates and mews they tend to inhabit you can guess their answer to that.

  9. avatarV.McCann says:

    Who wants to bet that the UK has a higher knife-murder rate than Wyoming? Must be that strict Wyoming knife control, right?

  10. avatarBryan says:

    Doesn’t mikeb live there? What a utopian paradise it is.

  11. avatarPeteRR says:

    Would it make you feel any better if they was pushed out of windows?

  12. avatarAharon says:

    Next step: the nanny-state will require all food such as veggies, fruit, meat, and cheese to be pre-cut by the food industry. Then all kitchen knives will become obsolete and criminally illegal requiring them to be turned into government. It’s better and safer that way since now home cooks won’t cut themselves.

  13. avatarPat Carver says:

    But the Brits are still allowed to carry those bags filled with an array of clubs around, right?

    • avatarCarlosT says:

      For now.

    • avatarjwm says:

      just until their government figures out those white thingy’s are actually high velocity projectiles. then they’ll have to switch to nerf golf.

    • avatarA Brit in MI says:

      Yes, but if you beat a knife wielding punk to within an inch of his life with your 9 iron, you would be prosecuted for assault with a deadly weapon!

  14. avatarJon R. says:

    Is it against the law to carry a Katana in Britain? If not, I’d be the first official mall ninja if I lived there. Thank god my ancestors immigrated.

  15. avatarlolwut says:

    I’d just like to point out that the linked article is over four years old. Rob Knox died in May 2008, and the comments are all over four years old as well…

  16. I find it a bit hypocritical that you and your commenters, who repeatedly tell us how the child shootings in the US are statistically insignificant, would build an entire argument over 300 knife deaths in the UK.

    It’s a shame that not one of the Armed Intelligentsia commenters has the balls to call you on your bullshit. It kinda proves what I often say. You guys aren’t interested in the “Truth,” you’re interested in advancing your agenda regardless how wrong-headed it may be.

    • avatarAPBTFan says:

      “you’re interested in advancing your agenda regardless how wrong-headed it may be”

      And your agenda is different how?

    • avatarAPBTFan says:

      Come on smart guy. Distinguish our “wrong headedness” from yours.

    • avatarrosignol says:

      Is anyone else wondering if Robert just trolled Mikeb#?

      There’s going to be some fun quoting this down the road…

    • avatarChas says:

      Yeah, cause it’s real brave to sit at your computer and hurl invective at people you know you’ll never have to face, ain’t it, Mikey?

    • avatarRobert Farago says:

      So you’re saying that 300 knife deaths a year are acceptable? On what basis?

      • Nooo. I said you’re a hypocrite because you say the kid deaths in The States are acceptable.

        • avatarV.Mcann@ says:

          Mike, I think you might be lying.

        • avatarJake says:

          That is just about the opposite of fact. What we actually tend to indicate, staff correct me if I’m wrong please, is that no matter how much you wish and hope they would, the things you want to do to “correct” those occurrences would do no such thing. Those events would remain, the only difference would be that more law abiding people would be defenseless on the off chance someone decided they looked like a worthy enough target for… whatever. I for one care more about law abiding people than the criminals who decide that their own greed is worth more than another human being’s life. Even you, pending criminal record review, naturally.

    • avatarMoonshine7102 says:

      Still got that carry permit, Dog Gone?

    • avatarJarhead1982 says:

      When they banned guns and then killings using knives replaced on equal footing the deaths where guns were used, yes we can question it.

      After all its you antis that seem to think a cultural difference is actually created by gun control, but you have never proven it oh mighty spin master of the pathological lie gun control reduces violence.

      • Keep repeating what you’ve heard the others say. Don’t think for yourself. Don’t think about the obvious frequent mass killings we have with guns that COULD NOT happen with knives.

        • avatarV.Mcann@ says:

          Yes, but many more knife killings could happen without the guns.

        • avatarJarhead1982 says:

          LOL, damn, you are so easy to bait into saying something stupid.

          You mean mass kilings with knives dont happen in strict gun control states, uh heres China.

          “The 2010 Chinese school attacks were a series of uncoordina­ted mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People’s Republic of China beginning in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 21 dead and some 90 injured.”

          On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping, Fujian province.

          Just a few hours after the execution of Zheng Minsheng in neighborin­g Fujian Province, in Leizhou, Guangdong another knife-wiel­ding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher.

          An attacker named Wu Huanming, 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergart­en in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010

          On 4 August 2010, 26-year-ol­d Fang Jiantang slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergart­en in Zibo, Shandong province.

          Aug 2, 2012 A teenager has been arrested after killing nine people and wounding four others in a knife attack in northeast China, state media reported Thursday. The 17-year-old, who was identified only by his surname Li, barged into the home of his girlfriend armed with a knife following an argument and killed two relatives of the girl, the Legal Daily said. As he left his girlfriend’s home in Liaoning province’s Xinbin county, he stabbed six more people to death and wounded five, it said.
          One of the injured died Thursday in hospital, the paper said. Li was arrested near the scene of the attack, late on Wednesday night, and was taken into custody, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

          You are sooo easy to prove a liar.

        • avatarjwm says:

          are you still here mikeybnumbers. didn’t you get the memo, your side lost. gun control is a dead issue. you need to devote your efforts to something more productive. i need to learn how to do one of these blog thingy’s so i can start getting the word out ot oppressed places like italy that they can take back their rights and join free gun owners everywhere.

        • avatarAPBTFan says:

          “frequent mass killings we have with guns that COULD NOT happen with knives”

          Ever heard of a bomb? That shithead McVeigh killed 168 and injured 800 people with nary a gun or knife. Kinda beats 12 killed and 70 injured don’t it? For that matter google the IRA, genius.

        • Haven’t you been reading the news lately? Of course there’s the occasional bomb and multiple knife attack, but they’re occasional. The multiple shootings are daily.

        • avatarJarhead1982 says:

          Dont fotget the Bath School disaster, the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, four other adults and the bomber himself; at least 58 people were injured.

          Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age [1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School.

          Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in U.S. history.

          Geez, no guns used either.

        • avatarAPBTFan says:

          “Keep repeating what you’ve heard the others say. Don’t think for yourself.”

          Really? And your shtick is any different? Please explain the difference.

          FLAME DELETED

        • Actually I do think for myself. I don’t just repeat the Brady policy line. I’ve come up with a number of interesting ideas and observations, often I’m criticized for them because they do not rely on statistics but only on my ideas.

        • No they aren’t.

          Or does your personal math count two as a mass?

        • I think 3 and above counts as “mass.”

        • Mass murder is widely seen to be four or more victims; a definition used by the FBI, so there is no need for you to make up your own definition. Note that perpetrators don’t count as victims.
          The same goes for “daily”, which to you means the same as “two in a month” does to everyone else.

        • Sounds like you’re the one making shit up, Mike.

        • Go ask the FBI; it’s their definition.

        • avatarJarhead1982 says:

          QUOTE FROM MIKEB “Don’t think about the obvious frequent mass killings we have with guns that COULD NOT happen with knives.”

          Geez, Liar, Liar pants on fire.

          Or doesnt the word “could not” mean something different in the progressive eubonics dictionary?

          Could not means in the real world IT WILL NOT HAPPEN, EVER.

          Yet without trying, dozens of RECENT EXAMPLES are provided, and some older ones as well, LOL!

          Oh thats right, in progressives eubonics, “Could Not” it means, like well ok, I pulled the comment out of my arse and now I must use diversinary tactics to keep from admitting I pulled it out my arse and was proven a LIAR yet again.

    • avatarAPBTFan says:

      Go ahead and skip the hard questions as usual mike. You love to pop in and run your mouth so how about answering my simple question. Too hard for you?

      FLAME DELETED

  17. avatarKory says:

    This is simple! All they need to do is to add serial numbers to all knives and to start a registry system so that they can track the knives used in murders and crimes. [Gun Control Act 1968] They also need to provide a piece of leather that has been cut with each knife when you purchase it so that it can be added to a knife cutting database to determine which knife was used in a crime. [Empty Casing Requirement for each Pistol] For those people who use knives for legal and lawful purposes (in the kitchen), they need to submit to a background check, finger printing, and to always carry their Knife Owners Identification card. [IL Firearm Owner Identification Card]

    • avatarJarhead1982 says:

      Just like the Chinese, Russians and such have found, you will need to register and track any kind of machine tool, or manual tool that could be used to make a firearm or a knife.

      See, the anti’s just want to create job opportunities for their unemployable in the real world cause they’re too stupid for anything but government work friends. Who will then fill the ranks of sheeple documenting and controlling tool registration, permits, taxes, fee’s training, transportation, background checks, etc, etc, etc.

      Yeah, just what we need, more bureaucratic ka ka that MikeyB would just love as he is that kinda dictatorial sadomasochistic person loving to tell people what they can or cannot do based on their subliminal internalized scared of the boogeyman primal needs to control others, rather sad actually.

  18. avatarFred says:

    I used to live in the UK. I even had a firearms license over there. That country is so full of nampo bampo political correctness. I wonder what they will ban next, cast iron frying pans? stone bricks? metal pipes, pointy shoes? I am surprised that i could actually buy a pack of matches in the grocery store over there. They have this feeling of superiority over all other countries, and like to think of themselves as more civilized. But seem to deny the social problems and inequality that exist in their own country.

  19. avatarA Brit in MI says:

    As I mentioned before, knives are prevalent amongst the gangs of feral youths roaming the streets in the UK. For years there has been a revolving door type justice system where at most a slap on the wrist (figuratively, not literally) gets administered, then the offender is free to roam the streets once more. Also, there seems to be a lack of parental responsibility which certainly exacerbates the situation.

    Back in the day when handguns were legal, there was no ability to oc or cc (legally). There were strict storage & transportation requirements, therefore the common criminal could quite safely assume their victim on the street would be unarmed. I obtained a shotgun licence in the UK when I was 16 but ironically had to sell my O/U when I moved to the US 5 1/2 years ago. But, the consequences of using that to defend yourself in your home were so great that it really would have to be a life or death situation.

    I suppose to summarize, in the UK the criminal has it easy, the average Jo or Joanne not so much….

    But I miss the pubs……

  20. avatarJosh in GA says:

    Anybody seen Harry Brown, the Michael Caine movie? This is waaaaay OT, but this post reminded me of it for some reason.

    • avatarJon R. says:

      That movie was totally unrealistic… everyone knows that British gang bangers and drug dealers can’t get handguns… …

  21. avatarRalph says:

    Osaka school massacre — 8 dead school children, 15 other people seriously wounded with a kitchen knife.

    Akihabara massacre — 4 dead, eight injured with a knife.

    Nanping massacre — 8 dead by stabbing.

    These are just the recent cases of mass murder by knife. But these cases can’t be true, because as mikey says, there can’t be mass murders without guns. Right?

    • avatarMotoJB says:

      Riiight…apparently Mikey just doesn’t like the fact that it’s just easier to pull the trigger than be really up close and personal and have to work for it with a knife. Sure, you can definitely kill more people more quickly with an AR15 than a butter knife but that’s certainly not a reason to outlaw “assault rifles” and 100 round clips.

      • Maybe it’s exactly the reason to outlaw them. You should take you cue from the other guys and continue arguing that guns are NOT the preferred weapon of mass murderers and spree killers.

    • Thanks for getting serious for a moment, Ralph. Now I see, the gun is not the preferred weapon of mass murderers and spree killers. It’s the knife.

      Thanks, man.

  22. avatarjwm says:

    knives are scary to most people. we need to build on that fear to reverse the gun control situation in england. start restoring gun rights to the brits and let it start to spread across europe. be nice to see europe free for the first time in its history. and give the european gun grabbers something to worry about other than our rights.

  23. avatarrossi says:

    View more videos at: http://nbcnewyork.com.

    Darius Kennedy decided to draw an eleven inch knife and use it to menace a police officer near Times Square. He was ordered to drop the knife, refused, and six doses of pepper spray were not enough to convince him of the error of his ways. As the video above shows, he was soon surrounded by police officers, presumably because there was a call for backup. He lunged at one of officer, entering their Tueller bubble with predictable results.

    Kathy Johnson, the perp’s cousin, expressed dismay over the outcome , saying,”I think they could have gave him a warning shot, probably a shot in the leg or the arm,”
    Remember that Masad Ayoob has shown that a little four inch blade can penetrate eight inches of flesh , which means that Darius had enough blade to kill a man twice over. (…and if you are lucky enough to survive that sort of encounter, knife wounds are very nasty .) The average cop doesn’t shoot like Annie Oakley, and in that sort of situation they are going to do what is necessary to eliminate the threat.

  24. avatarWhoBeen says:

    Ref:”Osama bin Laden was killed by the US in 2011.”

    Two words for you, “Prove it!”

    Even Obama cannot prove it…that’s why he had the Osama look-a-like fed to the sharks. And once those members of Seal Team 6 (that had any knowledge of the event) were killed off then Obama can brag about his faux-kill like the fisherman who brags about the big one that got away. Wake up my friend…Obama has more friends in pakistan than most people have on Facebook.

  25. avatarSanguineAngel says:

    So, I did a little digging on the official figures for knife crime and gun crime in both the UK and the US across 2011. These are the figures I dug up. I don’t have an y particular agenda but seeing a few discussions in the wake of the recent shooting, this article struck a chord as it drew direct comparison to my own country and I wondered about how these figures are being presented.

    Here are the figures according to FBI for the US figures and Parliament (England & Wales) & Scotland.gov.uk for the UK figures.

    In 2011:
    Population: US – 311 million, UK – 61.4 million
    Firearm crimes: US -262,942, UK – 11870
    Firearm Fatalities: US – 8,583, UK – 340
    Knife crimes: US – 147,823, UK – 29,613
    Knife fatalities: US – 1694, UK – 200

    Combined crimes involving firearms & knives: US – 410,765, UK – 41,483
    Combined fatalities: US – 10,277, UK – 540

    The above as a % of the population:
    Combined crimes: US – 0.13208%, UK – 0.06756%
    Combined fatalities: US – 0.0033% UK – 0.00088%

    The comparison between these show that whilst there are 95.5% more crimes with knives or guns in america than in the UK in relation to the population, there are 275.7% more fatalities.

    Breaking that down, the difference in fatality rates does appear to lie largely with the use of firearms in those crimes. Whilst the incidents of Knife fatalities is indeed 67% higher in the US than in the UK, the incidents of gun crime fatalities is 398% higher in the US than in the UK when compared to the size of the population. This means that the higher rate of fatalities is largely attributed to the gun crimes.

    Hopefully these figures are helpful in providing a rounded picture on the statistics when comparing the UK & US policy on firearms.

    • I don’t know where you are getting those figures from but the firearms homicide figure is way off.

      There were 60 homicides in the UK through 2010/11 where firearms were used.

      In Scotland, firearms were used in crimes 619 times. This includes air weapons & imitations.

      • avatarSanguineAngel says:

        Hi Mike

        Thanks for the reply.

        For the UK stats on firearms, please have a look here:
        http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01940

        Those stats state that they are for England & Wales only and I verified the Scotland figures from here just to make sure:
        http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Crime-Justice/Datasets/Firearms2010-11

        From both those pages you will also be able to navigate to reports concerning knife crimes in the same or similar periods.

        For the US figures, this was much easier: figures can be found here http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-offense-data

        These links ought to bear out the stats I posted above.

        Although my figures are higher than those you have there mike, both sets are significantly lower in proportion than those in the US and when combined with the knife crime statistics, I hope the you can draw some useful conclusions.

        Anyway, thank you again for replying. When I saw the date of the article I wondered if my post would even get read.

        Best

        • avatarSanguineAngel says:

          sorry, I misspoke there – the parliament stats do include Scotland separately.

        • It’s the number of UK firearms fatalities I was pointing up.

          Your first post gives a figure of 340 fatalities caused by firearms in the UK, whereas the data you link to says 58 for England & Wales & 2 for Scotland – it’s that more than five-fold difference that concerned me.

        • avatarSanguineAngel says:

          Hi Mike, you are quite correct! I do apologise, I have no idea where the 340 figure came from. I see the report mentions 388 serious or fatal injuries which is obviously also not the figure I used. Obviously a gaff on my part.

          That affects the stats quite drastically, (Obivously). The salient effect is that the UK combined fatality rate is 0.00042%, when compared to the rate of 0.0033% in the US. That’s a 680% more fatalities in the US.

          The difference in firearm fatalities is in proportion to the population is UK – 0.0001% US – 0.00276% which is a difference of 2724%

          So in proportion to the population of each country, there are more incidents of violent crime involving firearms and knives etc. in the US (95%). The incidents of fatalities during those crimes is approaching 7:1 (680% greater in US) compared to the UK in proportion to the population. The vast proportion of that difference stems from fatalities caused by firearms with knife fatalities just 67% higher in proportion to the population (with a 95% higher crime rate)

  26. avatarNorm says:

    For an everyday activity, travelling by road is probably the riskiest thing many of us do on a regular basis.
    On average, some seven people are killed every day on the roads in Great Britain. Hundreds more are injured, many of them seriously, often with life changing consequences.
    In 2008 alone, 2,538 people died and nearly a quarter of a million were injured.

    TIME TO OUTLAW CARS !

  27. avatarJames Milligan says:

    Apparently the UK needs more good people carrying knives. Mean while, the US media reports 700 people have been shot since the Sandy Hook slaughter and we have the highest gun ownership per capita.

    • Meanwhile since the Sandy Hook attack, at least 5,000 people in the US have been saved from serious harm or death by the defensive use of firearms.*

      *Based on 100,000 DGU’s a year, a figure way below even government estimates.

  28. You should have received an email asking you to confirm your desire to follow the thread.
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  30. avatarMark says:

    Quick everybody, Britain’s had some stabbings, but that’s not enough. Let’s restore their gun rights so that they too can enjoy a murder rate like they have in the good ol’ United States!

    • avatarMike the Limey says:

      Some of those stabbings could be prevented if the knife wielder found himself looking down the barrel of a gun.

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