Tim Kreider

Tim (Can I call you Tim?),

The fantasy is all yours, my friend. Like you, I will state my opinions as fact since that seems to be good enough for HuffPo:

Most law-abiding gun owners don’t fantasize about the guns-a-blazing scenarios you seem to dream up. Their wish is to have their guns and never be in a situation where thay are forced to use them. They just want to know that if they do need it, it’s there. They are not “imagining what would’ve happened if I’d been waiting there for the thief with a gun, soothing myself with pathetic little revenge scenarios of shooting the intruder.” Gun-toting posses really aren’t the fantasy of gun owners. They are simply the unsubstantiated nightmares of gun control advocates . . .

But Tim, bad things really do happen. Ask the 14-year-old boy in Phoenix who saved himself and his siblings by shooting an intruder. Ask his father if he regrets that his son shot someone and he will certainly say that while he regrets the situation ever happened, NO, he doesn’t regret that his son took action. He’s glad his son is alive to regret the the necessity of the incident. He is thankful he still gets to see his face every day rather than be forced to lament missing what the boy’s life would be like had he had the chance to become a man.

You stated that you had been stabbed. I am glad you came out of it OK, but don’t you see? Disarming law-abiding citizens does not stop violent actions from occuring. It doesn’t even slow it down. If anything, crime rates seem to rise due to stricter gun laws (Chicago?). Are knives next on your hit-list for legislation? Do “the rest of us have to risk our lives” because you need that instrument of death to pare an apple or open up that box from Amazon on your doorstep? Do we then, perhaps, ban glass bottles…should they be replaced by softer, safer, gentler plastic? People should have the right to protect themselves and their families by any means necessary. Ninety-nine percent of gun owners obey the laws and never have to use their weapon for self-defense. But they have another avenue to take in the event something does happen.

“The unmarketable truth is that there’s nothing much you can do to protect yourself or the people you love, not buying a gun or moving to a gated community or building a survival shelter.” Tim, please. Have you surrendered so completely? Is your life so empty that you harbor no desires of feeling safe? I assure you that the American people are not so defeatist as to subscribe to your point of view.

The typical gun owner does not purchase a weapon and then simply strap on a holster and show it off to friends. He/she typically takes the time to learn the proper handling, safety and shooting techniques that may one day make a difference for them or someone else. The firearm serves little purpose if you do not know how to use it.

Guns are a tool, Tim. And much like a hammer, knife or screwdriver, they can be used in bad ways by bad people. The answer is to find and repair or remove the bad people. Don’t blame the tool because bad people will simply find another tool. I just hope that the tool I have is effective enough to give me or my family a chance if I ever need it.

“Bad things can happen any time. But mostly they don’t.” But sometimes they do Tim. Sometimes they do. The next time a crime happens to you or someone you know, I hope the outcome is in your favor. I truly do. It will not happen by luck, though. Eventually, you learn that you cannot rely on luck alone. But I wish it for you anyway.

Best of luck, Tim. I hope you find happiness and one day have a legacy you can be proud of. Your path is harder than most right now because of your misguided view of the world around you, but you can do it if you really try. Open your eyes and ears to other viewpoints. Visit different water coolers and listen to what other people are saying and talking about. You may find that the world is larger than what you read at HuffPo. And when you do, congratulate yourself. You’ll know you just grew up.

51 Responses to jimmyzline’s Response to HuffPo Tim Kreider’s Anti-CCW Screed

  1. I left this response to his article over on the Huffington Post:

    Just because you are to irresponsible and untrained to carry a gun (you mention that when you were robbed you were drunk), don’t suggest that everyone else is just as stupid. I just got back from some formal weapons training where I was shooting alongside trained law enforcement and I was one of the better shots. So to suggest that it’s a fantasy for a civilian to effectively use a gun to protect themselves is flat out wrong. Most concealed carry supporters are very aware things go wrong and you can’t always prepare for it. However, that said, I rather improve my odds of survival. It’s your right to go though life hoping that nothing else bad ever happens to you. Just as it’s my right to go about my business knowing that the 45 ACP strapped on my belt right now gives me betters odds of getting out unscathed. Good luck to you living in your ivory tower. I hope the boogieman never knocks on your door.

  2. Please post your response over at the Huffington post. If you win over just one of their readers, it will be worth it. Great response.

    • I saw your post over there Larry. Thanks. I did post my response (albeit shorter due to the post limits at HuffPo). Still waiting for approval…

  3. Wow… Very well written, and thought out, response. Again, it’s ignorance on the part of the gun control advocate that fuels the aversion to firearms.

  4. “The typical gun owner does not purchase a weapon and then simply strap on a holster and show it off to friends. He/she typically takes the time to learn the proper handling, safety and shooting techniques”

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Thanks for the laugh – funniest thing I have read all week!

    • hmmmmm, somebody walks into a room where you’re at and flips on the lights. do you suddenly scuttle for the baseboards?

    • I don’t understand your response and I’m afraid if I was to interpret it from the BWAHAHA POV my response to your response would be somewhat irresponsible

      As to the article, well stated; but why try to talk him off the ledge he is standing on? He’ll continue to abuse alcohol and eventually die from his own meme

      • If every gun owner was so responsible then RF wouldn’t have an endless supply of IGOTD stories to draw upon. If every gun owner was so responsible you wouldn’t have 9000 murders per year with guns. If every gun owner was so responsible you wouldn’t have tens of thousands of videos on youtube featuring idiots and their guns being stupid.

        Here’s another select quote:

        “They are not “imagining what would’ve happened if I’d been waiting there for the thief with a gun, soothing myself with pathetic little revenge scenarios of shooting the intruder.” Gun-toting posses really aren’t the fantasy of gun owners.”

        How is that not complete and utter BS? You only have to look in the comments section on this site to see just how many gun owners have EXACTLY that fantasy. How many people were telling us how they wished they had been in the cinema with their gun? The line starts behind that douchebag Ted Nugent and continues on with a large proportion of the posters here. And the point is that it only take one of those people to completely ruin your day – what would ten Zimmermans shooting up the batman cinema have accomplished? Less dead? Maybe. More dead? Also completely possible – but that is not something most of you hardcore gun types are intellectually honest enough to even admit. Good ol’ Ted thinks he’s qualified to open up in a dark, loud, gas filled room full of hundreds of innocents because he took out some watermelons, and sadly that puts him in the overachiever category amongst the “wish I had been there” camp. I’m sorry, but I don’t see why I have to be exposed to tools like that waving deadly weapons around when I go outside. Statistically I am far more likely to run into a trigger happy Zimmerman than a mass murderer. Period. So I want the law to reflect that reality more than the “right” for Epsilon Double Minus retards to carry guns wherever they please. Does that suck for responsible gun owners? Sure. Does it suck for the general population? I don’t think so – I wouldn’t trust a lot of people here to pour piss out of a boot with instructions printed on the sole, and I sure wouldn’t trust them unloading a firearm into a dark room with me in it.

        But what does it matter what I think? My opinion is different to yours, so it doesn’t count, right? I’ll tell you this though: if you “responsible” gun owners can’t control the idiots amongst you yourselves then you will be legislated against further and further. Until bad owners are fearful of coming on a site like this and spouting their mall ninja stupidity then the pro gun group does not have its house in order and will continue to find itself in an uphill battle with moderates, let alone hardcore “grabbers”. “Gun culture” right now is not one that the majority of American’s are comfortable with, so you either sort that image out, or you watch your toys get taken away one by one.

        • what house in order? i have a right, not a privilege to own and carry firearms. until i commit a crime nobody can say otherwise. i cannot be punished for the actions of others, not without destroying the constitution. and that’s really what this is about,hmmmm. you and your kind are trying,knowingly, to destroy the freedoms of this country. and i will always stand against you.

        • Did you stand against the civil rights movement too? Because you obviously believe the constitution is infallible, right? So infallible it has had many amendments to it.

        • Ah, trolls. Gotta love ’em. Never let facts get in the way of a good trollin’.

          So here’s to you, Mr. Troll – to paraphrase Limp Bizkit “Keep trollin’ trollin’ trollin’ trollin’, come on! Keep trollin’ trollin’ trollin’ trollin’, yea!”

        • I’m sorry, but I am not responsible for the actions of someone else with the same hobby as me. Such a collectivist mindset is only advocated by the most insidious and plain fucking annoying of progressives.

          By your logic, if I were the great great great grandchild of a U.S. Army officer who ordered Native Americans to be forcibly migrated to a reservation, then I am somehow supposed to “carry the guilt” and “feel directly responsible for such tragic events”. Even if that was the case, I wouldn’t feel responsible, because I wasn’t in existence at the time.

          It works the same way with gun ownership, we’re not all connected by a giant spider web. Some jackass’ violation of the Four Rules while shooting does not effect my status as a gun owner.

          Go be a troll somewhere else and stop trying to eviscerate rights granted to me by the founders of this country.

        • No one said every single firearm owner went to whatever level of training to satisfy you. What everyone claims is that the typical citizen gun owner does train and behave responsibly.

          But don’t take my word for it, look at the Centers For Disease Control. Their data says about 600 people died from accidental gunshot wounds in the latest year where data is available — roughly 2008 give or take. This is the lowest accidental death category by far and away. And given that 80 million or so adults own firearms in the U.S., that is an outstanding safety record … an accident rate of 0.00075%. Show me any other entity with a better safety record: you’ll be looking for a long time.

        • Fair enough you are entitled to your opinion. Although one minor point: while you are probably correct that statistically your are more likely to run into a trigger happy Zimmerman than a mass murderer, both are quite a low probability. However, statistically speaking I believe you are much more likely to run into a criminal with a gun than either of the scenarios you mentioned. And in that situation I would prefer to have my gun.

        • hmmmmmmmm,

          I did say “The typical gun owner”. I did not say “the fool shooting appliances and waving his firearm around with utter abandon on youtube”. I did not pardon the random “kill’em all” stankhole that posts his idiocy from time to time. You are right. These misguided miscreants are out there. However, the latest Gallup Poll on gun ownership (you can look it up) shows 47% of US homes have at least one gun. There are 132,000,000 homes so that correlates to at least 64,000,000 gun owners. Right? And exactly how many DIFFERENT posters (youtube and TTAG) are you claiming fall into your “bad owners” category? Maybe 10,000? So now what percentage is that? Go ahead and do the math, I’ll wait…
          OK. I’ll help. It’s .016%. That is the extent of how infinitesimal an example you allow to sway your opinion of the whole.
          I forgive you. We are all guilty of it from time to time. But this is why Responsible Gun Owners get their short and curlies all twisted whenever someone lays out their “view” as fact and that guns are the problem and should be regulated. They are not the problem. Bad people (yes, even irresponsible gun owners) are.

        • “If every gun owner was so responsible you wouldn’t have 9000 murders per year with guns.”

          Nice try. Criminals committing violent acts in connection with gang and drug activity are responsible for about 80% to 90% of those annual murders. (Various big city newspapers have recently reported on this data.) That means armed citizens with no previous criminal record could be responsible for about 900 to 1800 murders annually.

          So adding in the 600 accidental deaths annually, armed citizens cause about 1500 to 2300 deaths annually with firearms. That is a rate of 0.001875% to 0.002875%.

          Show me any other large group of people numbering in the millions with a lower screw-up percentage.

      • LOL classic Ralph – so utterly blinkered and unable to accept that people have a different view to him that he feels the need to call anybody who disagrees with his narrow world view a troll.

        • You quote that 9000 people are murdered with firearms. Your typical murderer is not vey law abiding. Your Zimmerman reference is so at odds with the known facts in the case that you only look foolish by making the statement.

          So did Arianna pay you to come and post at TTAG?

        • “I’ll tell you this though: if you ‘responsible’ gun owners can’t control the idiots amongst you yourselves then you will be legislated against further and further.”

          I’m supposed to ‘control’ any idiot who owns a gun. You want to hold me responsible for the action of people I don’t know anything about, and with whom I may have only one solitary thing in common —- we both own guns. “Gun owners” would cover everyone from police officers and our military, right through hunters and paper punchers and into the “Crips”, Bloods”, etc. and the independent a$$h0les infesting our cities. If I don’t, you’re ‘gonna get me’ with more useless laws restricting my rights.
          I wonder what you would say if anyone suggested that “responsible” Afro-Americans had better “take charge” of the considerable criminal element and under-achievers with whom they share only one commonality — race, or suffer the consequences. I would predict the usual feigned outrage and charge of “Racist!”.

          It is not the difference of your opinion which leads people here to consider you a Troll. It is the gross stupidity of your statements, uttered in so self-righteous a tone, that strongly suggests you have no motive other than to offend, in hopes of eliciting some emotional response which only a Troll would find amusing.

        • HMMMMMMMM is the one with the narrow view.

          By the way, Little Bo Peep is looking for you.

        • I bet hmmmmm’s url is in Italy and we have driven MikeB over the edge and his real, subliminal violent creature has come out to play just before he goes postal!

      • hmmmmm, read some of my other posts. i did not stand against civil rights. i’m on record as saying us ofwg’s need to reach out to other races,genders, and religions to further gun ownership and use in america. and since you brought up civil rights, gun control was started in this country to keep freed men of color from being armed and able to demand their rights. the history of weapons control has little to do with public safety or crime. and just as peoplke of color and women have done i will stand up for my rights. and damn anybody that tries to take them.

        • It was an “are you still beating your wife ?” line of argument. It didn’t deserve an answer.

  5. I posted a response to Tim on the Puffington Host saying much the same thing, if not as artfully. It is currently pending review. But I did notice that almost all the comments were from folks who actually told Tim to get a grip. Surprising, considering the place it was posted.

    • Really not that surprising. Regardless of what we all see and hear on the news, the majority of Americans have a wealth of common sense. It is simply overshadowed by those with the larger, more immediate audience.

  6. Anyone who tries to talk sanity to a gungrabber might as well try to teach quantum physics to a sea turtle.

  7. I think all the foaming-at-the-mouth hysteria about the “I wish I would’ve been there” comments is either based on a misunderstaning (at best) or simply a thinly-veiled attempt to paint us all in the same light that GZ has been cast by the media.

    I believe, in almost every case, the “I wish I would’ve been there” mentality is not one of constant lusting for an armed encounter. There may be some among our ranks who are still infatuated with the idea of carrying a weapon, but no one I know personally fits into that category. The way I understand these comments, they are less of a chest-thumping demonstration of assumed masculinity and more of an (however poorly phrased) expression of the desire they have to protect the innocent and helpless. I personally have avoided saying things like, “I wish I had been there,” or “If it had been me…”, but when I try to imagine myself in an active-shooter scenerio, I believe I will take action. I hope I will. And I believe that is the meaning behind those comments: “I wish I could have had a chance to try to protect the victims.”

  8. Do I wish that I had been in the theater in Aurora? Absolutely not. Do I believe that carrying a gun guarantees me a long and happy life? No. What I do say is that my concealed handgun improves my odds.

    It’s the same as a seatbelt or a fire extinguisher. I don’t seek out trouble, either in my home or in my vehicle, but I have the tools available if trouble arrives. It may come in a form that I can’t deal with. That’s life–or the contrary. I do know that many forms of trouble are the kind that can be prevented or ameliorated.

    The control freaks insist that we prove to them how guns and gun owners are perfect. This, despite the fact that over 99% of us commit no crimes and have no accidents. This, despite the cases of good citizens defending themselves or others with a gun. What’s really going on is that they demand from us what they know they can’t produce themselves. They can’t be perfect, and so they want perfection from anyone who possesses a skill that they lack.

    • I’ve always summed it up as a gun isn’t a guarantee, but it’s a chance. In nearly gun-rights-free Brazil, nearly everyone knows someone who has been assaulted or murdered. My cousin’s ex-boyfriend lost his brother in a carjacking. A friend of a friend was killed outside his front door after coming home from work. My aunt was robbed and shot (non-fatally) coming out of a bank.

      Would the right to carry a gun have saved them? Maybe not. Then again, it might have. What I do know is that the gun control efforts of the Brazilian government definitely didn’t do a damn bit of good. Brazil is basically the Brady wet dream. You can only have two handguns, two rifles, and two shotguns maximum. Every gun has to be registered with the government, nothing above .38 Special is permitted for civilians, concealed carry is technically legal, but in practice never allowed.

      For all that, the criminals get guns easily. They either smuggle them into the country or steal them from police or military armories. Or they buy them from corrupt police and military who want a little bit extra cash.

      So I’m glad we ended up moving here, and I’m glad the US Constitution has a Second Amendment, and I’m glad Washington State respects it. I hope I’m never in a situation where I’ll need my gun, but if I am, I’ll be glad I have it.

  9. It’s pretty straight forward when push comes to shove with anti-freedom/self-defense people like Krieder and hmmmmmmm, it’s called transference.
    They place on others their own doubts and fears of thier capacity for violence if they had a gun at hand; which is why after a gun debate, after all of thier so called logic for more gun control is shown to be without fact or logic to support thier view they always say the real reason they want gun outlaw

    • Oops, I hit the post comment button by mistake; to finish the thought, so the real reason they want guns outlawed is that they are frightened of what they would do with a gun if they got angry.
      The other aspect of this transference is that since they know they would be ineffectual in a self- defense situation, everyother citizen would also be as ineffectual; Krieder is a picture perfect example of this thought process.

  10. When your life or the lives of your loved ones are JUST SECONDS from being violently threatened, remember, the police are JUST MINUTES away!

    In my home town, the average response time for a priority one “Man with gun” call to the police will get a response from the local gendarmes in about 8 minutes. You could not stand to have me whack you on the head with a feather pillow for 8 minutes much less withstand whatever more lethal device/object the feral criminal would likely be using on your person. Whatcha gonna do, invite the violent criminal to sit down for a nice soothing cup of tea while you both wait for the men in blue to arrive?

    “False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.”
    — Cesare Beccaria, as quoted by Thomas Jefferson’s Commonplace book

    Cheers!

    Yours in Liberty and Responsibility,
    Bill Mayhue

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