“…(I)n rejecting guns, Jews elect to put their full faith in government — also imperfect, as well as haphazard, biased, even vindictive. Placing faith in government rather than in legal rights places faith not in laws but in human discretion. Such a choice is necessarily foolish. And faith in powerlessness is still worse, demeaning and potentially suicidal.” – Alex Joffe and Simone Ellin

55 Responses to Quote of the Day: Misplaced Faith Edition

  1. I’m not Jewish, but I’ve been complaining about that for years. Does anyone here have a good explanation?

    • I am Jewish, and one of my pre-retirement crimes was being a pulpit Rabbi. One of the things I preached was, that while Rabbi Kahana OB”M used to say “Every Jew a .22”, my philosophy is, “The way to heaven is a .357.”

      And no, I don’t know the reason for the Jewish aversion to weapons.

      And by the way, this is mostly among Ashkenazi Jews. Sefardi Jews have always been more willing to actively defend themselves as communities and as individuals. One of my elderly congregants, an immigrant from Tunisia, recalled that during WWII, there was an attempted pogrom against a Jewish community in Tunisia. Her job, as an eight-year old, was to dump buckets of boiling oil from a porch onto the attackers. It is not surprising that a) the attackers were beaten back and b) there were no more attacks in that neighborhood.

      I wonder if this correlates to the fact that historically, many more atrocities were carried out against Jewish communities in Europe than in the Middle-East. And if so, which is cause and which is effect?

      • “The way to heaven is a .357.”

        I’m not a big rabbi fan yet I do like your style. As a .357 owner I’ll never forget that phrase. For some reason I’m not into the Austrian built Glock.

    • Generally speaking, it’s because they’re not really Jews.

      The long answer, is that many modern “Jews” have perverted the faith down to barely more than a bunch of Democrat talking points. Largely this seems to come from expanding a perverted interpretation of the concept of tikkun olam (making the world a better place and/or repairing the world) to replace practically everything of actual significance.

      More broadly speaking, Jews can largely be broken down into three categories:

      Reform: “I’m not really a Jew, but I play one on the first day of Rosh Hashanah and on Yom Kippur.”

      Conservative: “I keep a kippuh in my back pocket in case I need it.”

      Orthodox: “I’m Jewish and you know it.”

      That’s over-simplifying things a bit, but it’s generally true; Reform Jews often only pay lip service to the idea of being ritually observant, Conservative Jews tend to be fairly observant of religious rituals but not so observant that they can’t live among non-Jews, while Orthodox Jews tend to be highly observant of religious rituals.

      Generally speaking, in my experience, you can generally make good educated guesses about the political leanings of a Jew once you know what kind of Synagogue he attends. Reform Jews tend to range from center-left to so-far-off-the-left-end-it’s-a-wonder-they-don’t-fall-over, Conservative Jews tend to be fairly centrist on average, and Orthodox Jews tend to lean to the right.

  2. I have never understood the Jewish people. I admire them immensely and hope that God continues to bless them. Even with the whole world against them they still stand strong. What I don’t understand are the Jewish people in the United States. How can a race of people connected by faith and history be so willing to follow a Muslim president that only wishes for the destruction of their faith them and the elevation of the Muslim faith? How can the Jewish people allow or support gun control when their own history of gun control leads them toward slavery and death? I guess there are some things that will never make sense to me …

    • Are we still doing the dumb Muslim thing? Why does it matter? Christians and atheists are more then willing to degrade and destroy our rights as much as Muslims. Drop the childish Muslim meme so we can focus on the fact that he’s a fascist.

      • Yes, he is a Fascist…a MUSLIM fascist! A Muslim that believes Muhammad is the Prophet of God and as any “good” Muslim will tell you, all laws must be based upon Sharia Law. If you’re too lazy to look it up and see what that means or to open your eyes to his true beliefs then I wish you well under your one deminsional rock. I will agree that no matter their faith, they all are destroying our personal rights and will not stop until the elite are in control and masters over our lives!

    • Jews in Israel have a different view of guns than their left leaning brethren in the USA. The threat to their well being is much more obvious there than here. Any Jew that thinks disarming society is a good idea should look at the difference between the Jews in Germany and the Jews in Poland in WWII. Jew or not, I would rather put a fight than to be herded into a cattle car.

      • Actually, the public perception in Israel of firearms as necessary tools is largely a result of different circumstances.

        Over there, they’ve tried most of the leftist policies (including gun control) and they’ve discovered how they are abject failures.

        They’re also a very much more liberty-minded people; When the security of commercial air travel became an issue, they tried much of the same type of post-9/11 security theater that we have here now, and the people refused to stand for it. In it’s place, they got REAL security that doesn’t BS around, and doesn’t inconvenience the vast majority of travelers.

    • I agree, considering history, I would expect the average Jewish person to rattle when they walk from the multiple weapons concealed on their bodies. And yet the mayor of NY seems hellbent on disarming everyone he can. Doesn’t make sense to me either.

    • Considering their history (aka the Old Testatment of the Bible), there are many examples of the Jewish people, in small groups and in the vast majority, ignoring their own history and the lessons taught by it and simply doing what is not in their best interests.

  3. I’m a Jewish gun-owner from a family of gun-owners. Many of my Jewish friends are also gun-owners. As far as I’m aware, the Jewish religion does not have a set-in-stone stance on firearms; its a decision that each individual makes on a case by case basis (just like people of any other religion). To address chip-I agree that disarming the Jews allowed the Nazis to commit attrocities during the holocaust. But look at the state of the Jewish people now. Israel is on the front line of weapon development. There are pro-gun Jewish organizations. As far as the Muslim president thing, I think you should check your facts. Even if the president were a Muslim, there is no reason for anyone to hold it against him. With the power at the presidents fingertips, I’m sure he could wipe anyone off the map if he really wanted to, but the Jews are clearly still here.

    • Obama can’t be a Muslim, since they believe in Allah. Obama only believes in Obama. Rampant narcissism is his faith.

      • YET… Obama has been caught in the past, when talking about his faith, stating “his Muslim faith” and correcting himself after the fact. If he had no Muslim faith, the slip of the tongue would not have happened several time.

        just like any other religion though, I think you have a point, they’ll hang on to the title of the faith, yet have their own completely separate agenda that doesn’t line up with that religion.

        • yet he comes out in favor of gay marriage, explain how that fits into “his muslim faith”, whydontcha?

  4. Many years ago I remember reading an article by the Jewish intellectual Irving Kristol and while it does not directly relate to guns it does help explain the Jewish aversion to taking the kind of personal responsibility that firearms ownership entails. Kristol had given a talk at a New York Synagogue on helping one’s neighbor. After the talk a woman came up to him at told him about the homeless man who hung out near her apartment. She asked Kristol how she could help him. He said invite him to dinner. The woman was totally baffled by his response and she said no, she meant how could she get government help for him. Kristol used this exchange to show how modern American Judaism had been perverted by socialism. Under Judaism [and Christianity] you have the responsibility to help, to protect and care for other people, not some anonymous government agency. Paternalistic socialism accounts for the Jewish aversion to guns.

    • Modern American Judaism has been heavily influenced/perverted by socialism, political correctness, and feminism. The local community and/or extended family group has historically existed to do ‘some’ social type work to help people (or provide for education, a homeless starving family etc) in need though in the modern era it really has been taken to a weird extreme in the thinking of many to do more and more ie the modern intrusive nanny state.

  5. Wife’s employer is an observant jew. He is armed, and teaching his children that they have both the right, and the responsibility to be prepared to defend themselves. He’s as pro-2A as I am.

  6. In their quest to be so unlike those who have historically done evil to them many Jews have mistakenly associated the tool (guns) used by the evil to commit their acts rather than to see the ingrained darkness within the evil doers. American Jews need to focus more on the organic darkness that exists within many people which threatens them rather than innate material objects. A gun is much like the clothing worn by good and bad people as they are tools. Many American Jews have failed to recognize the difference. Fortunately, I do see more American Jews becoming more gun friendly.

    • In their quest to be so unlike those who have historically done evil to them many Jews have mistakenly associated the tool (guns) used by the evil to commit their acts rather than to see the ingrained darkness within the evil doers.

      That’s the whole reason, right there. Nothing more need be said about the why of it.

  7. The JPFO is an excellent source for more study.

    full article:
    Why Jews Hate Guns
    http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/why-jews-hate-guns.htm

    outline summary:
    “The adamantly anti-gun-rights Jews are bowing to:
    1. A desire for utopian moral purity
    2. A disproportional incidence of hoplophobia
    3. A quest for power through victimization of peers
    4. A utopian delusion that if guns would just “go away,”
    crime would end and the world would be a peaceful safe place
    5. Self hatred and a wish to be helpless, acting out guilt-based
    behavioral problems that develop in childhood
    6. The Ostrich Syndrome
    7. Garden-variety hypocrisy
    8. Adulterated religion — Jews In Name Only (JINOs)
    9. Feel-good sophistry
    10. Abject fear that yields irrational behavior”

    • 3. A quest for power through victimization of peers

      So if a white guy says that, they are a conspiracy theorist, anti-semite, and neo-nazi, but its ok for a Jew to?

      7. Garden-variety hypocrisy

      Oh, well now I understand why a white guy can’t say they have a quest for power via victimization of their peers.

      • from the link about point #3.

        3) “In our culture, victimization accords moral authority and thus power to the victim. Subjugating or convincing a constituency to accept victimization cedes power to those perpetuating this harmful ruse on their peers. This is despicably immoral — but it is tacitly acceptable and all too commonplace in our victimization culture. Just think of how many “rights” organizations claim moral authority and power through victimization.”

        matt, please get some help.

        • Aharon:

          I have learned to treat Matt with a sense of humor.
          You have to understand that Matt was probably a product of a Polish Militiaman and a Ukrainian peasant. There is an old joke told by Poles around the time of Jaruzelski’s crackdown in 1981. It goes like this:

          Pole #1: “Did you hear that we are sending the militia to help the Ukraine?”

          Pole #2: “That’s great. The IQ of both countries will go up!”

        • @Aharon
          That paragraph doesn’t make it sound any better. Ascertaining power and authority via ruses about victimization. And from point #3:

          Governments are historically the greatest threat to Jews (or anyone), responsible for horrendous mass-murder campaigns…

          Just look at America and Israel. But how many Jews are against either? How many Jews are anarchists?

          @tdiinva
          Ironically I’m a product of two (ex-)hippies.

        • all the jews i have met have been white. not counting sammy davis in this because i never met him. however it’s my understanding that as a black man and jew davis believed in and carried a gun. sensible man.

        • Matt:

          It depends on whether you are using the Third Reich’s definition of white or not. While there are a few black converts (Frank Thomas to name another one besides Sammy Davis), most of the darker complected Jews are from Ethiopia and they are anthropologically Caucasian.

          You have placed yourself in a hole. You should stop digging

        • Caucasoid != White

          Would you really prefer I use the term gentile? And who is going to call someone who isnt white a neo-nazi?

        • I am confused. I thought you were of Polish-Ukrainian origin. Doesn’t that make you white?

        • I was talking about Ethiopians, not myself when I said Caucasoid != white. Ya, i’m Ukrainian and Polish.

  8. This is a great question that is annoying when dealing with my peers. However I am actually curious myself and have been thinking for a few minutes trying to draw some sort of conclusion.

    As someone who is inclined to find things through history I will go back to the destruction of the 2nd temple 2000 years ago. The Romans destroyed the temple and after a series of unsuccessful revolts by the Jews became nastier and nastier. Something to look up would be the siege of Masada and the Bar Kochba revolt. Essentially though there was a mutual escalation of violence. The Romans occupied our country so we rose up and killed a bunch of them, in response they killed a bunch of us. This happened a few times with the death toll increasing on both sides. Jewish culture at the time was clearly quite militant and quite armed.

    However, all the rebellions were ultimately defeated and the Jewish death toll kept increasing. Eventually the armed rebbelions stopped. Why they stopped I have been told was that the Jewish leadership determined that the Romans would just kill all the Jews (a Roman holocaust if you would) and it would be better to live as foreigners in exile, than to be dead.

    So lets now travel through the next few hundred years of history, remembering that the Jews were almost exclusively living in exile as a minority in their respective countries.

    The crusades came through and the crusaders raped and pillaged their way to Jerusalem, what you could argue was a sort of wave of pogroms. Armed or not, the Jews were defeated. When the Cossacks came through the same thing occured. though I have heard reports of some jewish settlements holding their own. Essentially though the Jews were minorities and any large scale action would be easily destroy them even if they were armed, this is simply numbers.

    In a long-term view you could argue that keeping your head down would ensure national survival because you were never worth destroying in detail. While not very palatable, we are still here. Another thing that ensured our national survival was being radically different from the non-Jews. We are/were so different that assimilation was not really possible. part of being different is doing everything differently, if the non-Jews all have guns we will blanket condemn gun ownership as a foreign idea and thus separate ourselves even more.

    Essentially, before Samuel Colt made all men equal the Jews stood very little chance anyways. Afterward, guns were still expensive and as a minority we would not have made it anyways. Also I am guessing there were laws against Jews owning guns in Europe.

    Fast forwarding to the immigration of Jews to America, it must be noted that many held strong socialist views as it promised equality among all people, something that we did not have for millenia. But socialism is also very collectivist and that means relying on a central authority to provide for your security.

    Another item is that many Jews believe guns should be under a blanket ban ,they think wrongly, that such a ban would keep guns out of the hands of wrong-doers. Why should I get a gun, if we could just ban them and then the bad guys wouldn’t have them?

    So I think between a culture of accepting violence done unto us, or at least not doing anything physically against it, we were more ready to accept collective protection and the absence of personal rights to that end. We were very ready to accept socialist/communist ideas.

    It must be noted that all the above information pertains mostly to Ashkenazi Jews, those of European descent, and that it is all generalizations. I am sure that every one of my statements has a valid counterpoint, however, it is probably true for the general populace.

    In modern american times though, places that have more violence against Jews have significantly more armed Jews. I know a rabbi from Atlanta and he says that many Jews there own/carry pistols. I think that is a merge of both all the white supremacy violence and petty theft along with the fact that southern culture is more conducive to gun ownership.

    Also, as mentioned earlier the Jews of Israel have few illusions about gun rights. While still clinging to socialist laws, and lacking in gun rights and gun ownership they are arguably the most armed populace in the world. What I mean by this is that there are a lot of people packing on a typical Israeli street, ask anyone who’s been there.

    Anyways this has probably gone on long enough, but I am hoping and maybe even seeing that Jews are slowly warming up to gun ownership. If you are Jewish and reading this try and organize a trip to a range with people in your congregation. Pay for ammo and range fees, you will have a ten-fold increase in impact than if you gave that money to the NRA, and it will be in your own community.

  9. I was not aware Jeremiah Wright was a Mullah.

    Now to the early question, why are so many American Jew’s blind followers of Liberals and the Democratic party. It goes back to World War 2. FDR, and after him Harry Truman, did much to help the plight of the Jews trying to flee Europe from the Nazi’s and the establishment of the Jewish state in Palestine. That translated in to that generation and their decedents being very faithful to the Democratic causes.

    Since most people tend to follow in their parents footsteps when it comes to politics and views on life this has continued on for now 70+ years.

    • “The MS St. Louis was a German ocean liner most notable for a single voyage in 1939, in which her captain, Gustav Schröder, tried to find homes for 937 German Jewish refugees after they were denied entry to Cuba, the United States and Canada, until finally accepted to various countries of Europe. Historians have estimated that, after their return to Europe, approximately a quarter of the ship’s passengers died at the hands of the Nazis.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

      • ie FDR refused to let the German Jewish refugees enter America even after the ship reached the American coast.

        • That’s correct. FDR talked a great game, but his actions were reprehensible. If your name was Einstein, you could emigrate to the US. the average german Jews was SOL, and I don’t mean his first name.

          When Jewish groups in the US were begging FDR to bomb the death camps and put them out of the mass murder business, no such thing occurred. The excuse was that the bombers and munitions were needed elsewhere, but as we now know, by late 1944 we were basically out of targets and were bombing rubble, or intact German cities that had nothing to do with the war effort.

          Frankly, I don’t think that Franklin gave a sh!t.

        • Ralph,

          “FDR talked a great game, but his actions were reprehensible”
          — Sounds like another funny-man that is popular with the masses these days. By coincidence he also now lives in the White House.

          FDR campaigned on a sound-money platform. Once in office, gold bullion was essentially made illegal to own/posses and people ordered to sell their gold to the banks/government. After they got the gold, the USG increased its value by @ one-third.

          FDR also authorized the interment of Japanese-Americans (though not German- or Italian-Americans).

        • Ralph:

          The 8th AF could not have successfully bombed the death camps until mid-1944 at the earliest. They were in Eastern Europe and at the extreme range of the allied bombers operational combat radius. Prior to the spring of 1944 there would not have been enough fighter cover to support the raids. The bombers would have been massacred. By the time the Mustang was available in sufficient numbers to escort the bombers preparation for D-Day were underway. Bombing the death camps sounds better than the reality. It would have only made a difference on how and where the Germans murdered the Jews.

          The one thing that could have prevented the rise of Hitler and prevent both the Holocaust and the War was continued US involvement in Europe. Even a small force of Americans left behind to maintain the WWI alliance would have given the French the backbone to deal with Hitler before he became a threat. But Americans wanted to return to the 19th Century so that didn’t happen.

  10. As the token black-hat Yeshivanick of the site I’d like to add something before Shabbos.

    I don’t care too much about the past in this regards. And I can only speak about what I’m familiar with. Most Jews in the US were anti-gun because they knew only about the guns pointed at their grandparents or parents or themselves. The same reason Jews didn’t own German Shepherds in the 50’s and 60’s is the same reason Jews didn’t own guns. But after the Six Day War in Israel the image of the “tough-Jew” became real. Before the “tough-Jew” died in a ghetto. And don’t snicker. There are many stories, more among the Chassidim of Jews forced into the Czar’s army and becoming the biggest and the baddest. Or of one man holding off a dozen brigands. Some of these are fiction. Most of them are not. But the tough-Jew died in Europe.

    It’s changing. I know more and more Jews outside of NY, LA, Baltimore, etc. are getting into firearms. There has been a view of comfort and safety in North America but nothing ever changes. There has been attacks, lynchings, beatings, and prejudice against Jews in the US, just like anywhere. Not a lot, but its happened. My friends in Quebec have felt it the most. So just like many other Americans, there is a wake up call about firearms.

    Most of my friends are religious and are of the Lubavitch Chassidic persuasion. And they are often very interested in firearms and what it means to armed. They are the most open. Many of them also happen to be more right-wing in general. Interesting enough more and more Yids I know are more open to firearms after they go to Israel for a gap year, summer program, yeshiva, or summer camp. They see a society that is armed and that it just isn’t so crazy. I’ll be learning in the yeshiva and it doesn’t surprise me at all to see an M4 on the chair next to me. The view of firearms is changing. I guarantee you’ll see more kippahs on the firing line.

    I’d like to add I was raised in a town where one of the oldest running gun shops is Jewishly owned and owned by a family that has been active in the community for close to 80 or so years.

    • BTW from a pure Torah perspective there is nothing wrong with being armed. But no direct support for it. Certainly there is a mitzvah (binding and obligatory commandment) to “not stand idly by the blood of your neighbor” which is made easier with a firearm and there are two other mitzvos involved with the stopping of a rodef (pursuer of life). So once again, from a Jewish legal perspective there is nothing wrong with carrying weapons. That is one reason you may see more of the religious crowd being open to firearms ownership. Torah and Mitzvos are the moral compass for Orthodox Jewry. But it gets more complicated from here.

      *disclaimer: I’m not a rabbi and any legal or moral questions should be directed to you nearest Orthodox rabbi competent in these matters.

      • thank you ben eli. this certainly answers some questions for me. i hope 1 day to see all people have the option to go armed. whether they choose to is up to them. i would like to see the state roadblocks removed from the equation.

        • Glad to help you. I also hope to see freedom and justice permeate the world with the ultimate goal of peace and no more need for arms. In the meantime I’d like to run through those roadblocks with a semi.

  11. I am frequently challenged by my cousins and other relatives (but NOT my wife and kids) how a good Jewish boy could be in law enforcement and carry a gun with him all of the time. They all know that I have a gun collection, including those nasty “assault rifles” and pistols with immoral and unnecessary “large capacity bullet clips”. At all of my daughters’ weddings I carried concealed, including in the Temple.

    I have been told that I was wrong to take my daughters shooting when they were very young, and it was obscene to buy each her own “Chipmunk” .22 to practice with, clean, and maintain. One daughter currently shoots competitive handgun (cousins think that it is an abomination for a good Jewish girl with a PhD); two have concealed carry licenses; one carries full time as a state police officer (how could I let her do that?). I was told that I was irresponsible to teach my daughters about those nasty guns, whose only purpose is to kill other human beings.

    Most of my relatives, living in NJ, NY, MA, and MD ask if I have permits and licenses to own all of my guns (NO! not required in TX, and protected by the 2nd Amendment).

    As you can guess, I and my immediate family are the pariahs of my extended family, and often treated like black sheep. Even though I can legally carry nationwide, thanks to HR218, I have received invitations to distant family events with a handwritten note to “please don’t bring your handgun”. If I do go, I am always armed – PERIOD!

    There is no need to have a logical discussion of self defense and “sheepdogs and wolves” with them, or the proverbial “what-if” our relatives (aunts and uncles) in Eastern Europe who perished in the holocaust had been armed along with their Jewish neighbors.
    I have several aunts and uncles who placed their faith in the Polish and Russian governments to protect them, even despite their long history of antisemitism. NONE of them survived the holocaust.

    Never again.

    (Update: I just had a call from one of my cousins in NJ who asked about one of my recent Facebook posts. He asked me how a good Jewish man, like me could be so politically conservative and vote Republican!)

  12. This is a must see movie called NO GUNS FOR JEWS and will explain why some Jews are so anti-gun. It is made by the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms who are billed as America’s most agressive defender of Firearms ownership. (click on my link for their website.

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