Florida Non-Resident Concealed Carry Permit Loophole?

 

“Lucas County sheriff’s deputies recently responded to a call of a man with a gun,” toldeoblade.com reports. “What they encountered took some sorting out: The jogger was a local man with a gun under his shirt who produced an Ohio driver’s license and a concealed-carry permit issued from the state of Florida. It was a circumstance that took officers off guard. Although recognizing that permit holders have a right to carry a concealed weapon, it was unclear if the Florida license satisfied Ohio law.” Yes. Yes it does. Ohio has reciprocity with Florida, which issues non-resident permits. A fact that has riled some Buckeye Staters who “question why Ohio would allow another state to issue permits to its residents.” Or why an Ohio resident would apply to Florida for a permit rather than Ohio . . .

Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Association, said there are a number of reasons Ohio residents apply for and receive out-of-state licenses. He said his organization strongly recommends that all Ohio residents receive an in-state license but said he understands why some don’t.

The main reason gun owners obtain out-of-state licenses is that places such as Florida have reciprocity agreements with more states than Ohio, so a traveler is legal to carry in more states, he said. Other reasons include avoiding the possibility of news media publishing lists of permit holders.

There are some, he acknowledged, that may apply in other states to avoid Ohio’s training requirements.

OMG! Ohio citizens who’ve avoided 12 hours of mandatory training! Given Florida’s reputation as “the Gunshine State,” maybe the Ohio residents carrying under a Florida permit are people who would get denied in land that calls itself The Mother of Presidents.

Uh, no. Florida also runs a criminal background check on applicants and requires written proof that the applicant has proficiency with a firearm. So why all the fuss anyway?

House Bill 495 would amend Ohio’s concealed-carry laws. It was recently approved in a 57-26 vote of the House but has not been considered by the Senate.

In essence, the legislation “authorizes the automatic validity in Ohio of a concealed handgun license issued by another state as long as that jurisdiction recognizes Ohio’s license without the need for a reciprocity agreement,” according to the office of State Rep. Terry Johnson (R., McDermott), who sponsored the bill.

Ah, liberalizing Ohio concealed carry laws, which have already enabled some 300k citizens to exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Cue someone, anyone who represents gun control.

[Toby Hoover of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence] said she is concerned about the proposed changes because they open Ohio to “accepting the lowest common denominator” of concealed-carry permits.

“It’s a slippery, creeping slope that ends up with fewer and fewer restrictions on those who want to carry concealed guns,” she said. ” … I just question why that man in [Lucas County] got a permit in Florida. Probably because he wouldn’t get one in Ohio.”

Facts, schmacts.

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

57 Responses to Florida Non-Resident Concealed Carry Permit Loophole?

  1. avatarGS650G says:

    I carry in Delaware thanks to reciprocity with Florida. This loophole means I don’t have to spend a small fortune on approved training classes, notices in the newspaper that I intend to tool up, applications at the Prothonotary, and the best part: asking 5 people in my voting district if it’s OK for me to carry and to please sign my petition.

    A lot if idiots, and a few gun shop employees, think a DE resident can’t use a FL CCW unless they also have a DE one. Not true, they should read the law. Or that only FL residents can carry here, not true again since this rule is not in the law (SC and few other states have this provision), the law asks that DE gun laws be followed.
    So in addition to a multi-state acceptance it also includes my own. Now if Jersey and Maryland would get on board I could travel freely with my little buddy.

    • avatarMr Pierogie says:

      Common sense in NJ? Surely you jest.

      I have a question: Even if the national reciprocity bill passes, something tells me NJ won’t be issuing permits to residents anyway, so….. would the state have to honor a Florida non-resident permit? Again, IF the bill passes, this might be the only way for me to CCW in NJ, but I don’t know if that’s going to work.

      • avatarLongPurple says:

        I don’t think that will be the case.

        The last version of the law I saw (subject to revision at the blink of an eye), would not require a state to honor a U. S. Citizen’s RKBA, documented by another state’s CCW permit, if that U. S. Citizen was a resident of that state. In other words, if you are a NJ resident, even though you are a U. S. Citizen, the state of NJ can deny your RKBA by refusing to honor your “non-resident” permit from any other state in the Union.
        Of course, all us Jersey guys could move to Virginia, obtain ‘resident’ permits there, then carry in NJ, or even NY, MA, CA or . . . (Gasp!!) IL.
        The alternative, under what I see as the latest form of the bill, is to enjoy the vicarious pleasure of seeing Citizens (and residents) of various other states, with more rational “shall issue” CCW Laws, walk about as free men in the urban areas of those “may issue” states, to the horror of those who predict a return to the mythical “Wild West”.

    • avatarchad says:

      How did u find this info out. Do u know where I can find it in writing. I am a DE resident and I am in the process of getting a Florida non resident license. I asked the cops in my town n they had no clue and said that I should check into it n try n get it in writing if I could just incase I ever had a problem.

      • avatarGreg says:

        Look up delaware open carry it tells you ,you must have delaware carry first you cannot just get a florida and be legal

    • avatarBrian says:

      Hi I live in Delaware how would i go about getting a Florida permit

      • avatarDelmarva Chip says:

        I know that this is many months after the posts but wanted to clarify something for anyone reading later in case there was any confusion …

        A non-resident Florida concealed carry permit does NOT allow a Delaware resident to legally carry concealed in Delaware. A Delaware resident MUST have a Delaware-issued carry permit to legally carry concealed in Delaware.

        A resident of a state other than Delaware can carry concealed in Delaware with a Florida permit.

        All of this is as of the date of my post (in July 2014).

  2. avatarBill F says:

    “I just question why that man in [Lucas County] got a permit in Florida. Probably because he wouldn’t get one in Ohio.”

    And exactly who did you question? If you don’t know why, it’s okay to just make something up?

    • avatarDirk Diggler says:

      wouldn;’t it be nice if someone suggest to the man stopped by the police that he should get a lawyer and sue Mr. Hoover for libel ? I am just saying . . . .

    • avatarGS650G says:

      That little statement of his creates this quiet suggestion that outlaws in Ohio are exploiting Florida to carry firearms. Mr. Hoover doesn’t mention FL demands fingerprints, does a background check, and everything Ohio does except onerous amounts of expensive supervision.

      • avatarWill says:

        They probably didn’t even bother to check. Wild uneducated speculation is so more supportive to the anti-gun people than real facts are.

        • avatarLongPurple says:

          “speculation . . . more supportive to the anti-gun people than . . . facts”

          My recent experience suggests it is the ONLY support they can gather for their opinions.

    • I live in pa and I need a gun permit

  3. avatarMatt in FL says:

    The guy from the Buckeye Firearms Association had these two things right:

    …Florida have reciprocity agreements with more states than Ohio, so a traveler is legal to carry in more states. Other reasons include avoiding the possibility of news media publishing lists of permit holders.

    First, if the gentleman in question wanted to drive between Ohio and Florida, the Florida permit is better. Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia all disallow Ohio’s resident permit, while allowing Florida’s non-resident permit. So he’d have to disarm to make the trip using his home state permit.

    Second, Florida has a statute that specifically exempts the list of permit holders from the Sunshine (government transparency) Laws, and provide penalties for disseminating or publishing those names. I don’t know if Ohio has a similar statute.

    Those two reasons alone are enough for me to understand why he did what he did.

  4. avatarMike S says:

    Someone should ask this moron one simple question: If your state’s driver’s license was only recognized by “x” states, but another state made their driver’s license available to you, and it was recognized by a greater number of US states, including your own….which one would YOU get?

  5. avatarjwm says:

    this is one of the reasons i keep saying that we’re all americans no matter our state of residence. we should have the same rights nation wide. a national shall issue with one set of standards for all. for those that say this creates a gun registry, do you honestly believe the governmant doesn’t already know who the gun owners are?

    • avatarAccur81 says:

      National shall issue. I can dig it.

      • avatarGarynyer says:

        National constitutional carry

        • avatarJJ says:

          I agree. Nationwide Constitutional Carry is exactly what we need. Concealed Carry is the only “right” that requires (in most states) a paid for government permission slip. This needs to change.

  6. avatarAdam says:

    The commissioner of the Florida CCW is Charles Bronson?! That rules!

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Charles Bronson was the Florida Commissioner of Agriculture and Consumer Services from 2001-2011. It was always amusing to me to stop and get gas and see his name on the stickers on the front of the gas pumps.

      • avatarGS650G says:

        For some bizarre reason the Fl department of Ag runs the permit system, I’ve renewed mine 3 times and always chuckled at where the forms get sent.

        • avatarWiregrass says:

          I think this comes from the association of firearms regulations with hunting regulations which are also administrated by the Dept. of Agriculture. At least they were when I lived there 30 years ago.

        • avatarLongPurple says:

          I reveled in the fact that it was NOT the Law Enforcement arm of the State Government in charge of CCWs.
          Maybe Florida learned something from NY putting the cops in charge of the pistol permit process; and then having a dozen of the Mafia hoods picked up at the Apalachia “Crime Convention” holding pistol permits, processed by those cops with such keen insight to Human character and morality.

    • avatarSanchanim says:

      LMAO omg that is too funny!!!
      Texas should be Chuck Norris!!hahaha

  7. avatarLeon says:

    This is why the most important thing on the table is national reciprocity.
    This is what we should be pushing for. We need not keep worrying about the 2A.
    It is here to stay.
    Does anyone know where 495 is with the Senate?

    • avatarOHgunner says:

      They are on a break for the summer I believe. I don’t think there will be any action until after this round of elections.

      OHgunner
      (formerly KYgunner)

  8. avatarSanchanim says:

    This is why I so badly want reciprocity for CA to be forced to except other states. This is why H.R. 822: National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 is so important. first off for those who have attempted to get a CCW in CA, the cost is really high. If you plan on carrying more than one gun then you have to qualify, errr I mean pay for each gun. This is based on serial number not just type. You are looking at a cost of $500 plus, and if you want to qualify on multiple firearms it goes up from there.
    It is extortion really. Not only is it either hard or next to impossible to get, but the cost leaves it almost out of reach for someone with an ex vampire, I mean wife, and a bunch of kids.
    Nevada as outlined in a previous post here: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/ralph/shooting-up-the-strip/
    There the cost is darn well reasonable. To top it off you qualify on gun type, ie revolver and semi auto. Much easier to deal with. Sure you have to re-up every two years, but hey that means a road trip to Vegas or Reno. I don’t know if I could handle the excitement lol In either case I would be applying right away if the reciprocity act ever took affect. No I have nothing to hide, and I am squeaky clean, but this is a financial decision not anything else.
    Sure we can get into the constitutionality of it all day long but the point is, most of us who can will travel the path of least resistance. My county stinks as far as shall issue, and the cost also bothers me. So I would rather make a road trip visit friends and get one out of state. Much easier if you ask me.

  9. avatarGreg Camp says:

    I have a Florida non-resident permit in addition to one from my state. The renewal time is different on the two so if one gets hung up in paperwork, the other will cover me. A license from Arkansas–my state of residence–lets me carry in forty states, more than any other state than Michigan., but it’s good to have backup.

    These gun control freaks should just be honest. They don’t want anyone carrying a gun, period. They also don’t want anyone to own a gun, but that’s for another article.

  10. avatarHawke says:

    Having a National Shall Issue would be good, but not as the only option. If I was the person traveling all over the states a National CCW permit may be the answer. But If I didn’t want a national permit I should still have the option at the state level.

    I feel the same way about Vehicle Driver Permit and Registration. Could you image the value of a USA tag on your Car or Truck.

    • avatartwency says:

      Better yet, let’s just eliminate any need to have a permit to bear arms. A permit requirement is an infringement on our constitutionally-protected right to bear arms.

  11. avatarRalph says:

    Lowest common denominator! Common sense restrictions! It’s for the children! Slippery slope!

    Whenever I hear that gungrabber marketing bullshit, I reach for my Smith & Wesson just to make sure that they haven’t stolen it yet.

  12. avatarMike OFWG says:

    So, according to this permit, the holder can carry a concealed weapon or a firearm? That seems odd. Like a concealed knife?

    • avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

      Florida allows concealed firearms and other weapons. You can conceal your knife, a billy club and a stun gun all at the same time. I have 8 permits that cover 40 states, and soon I’ll have 9 that cover 41 states and that will be my limit until the law changes.

      • avatarPascal says:

        Which are the 9 that cover 41? I know Utah and Florida cover many but what are the others?

        • avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

          Pascal, I now have Florida, Utah, Virginia, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, Connecticut and Arizona. I’ll be getting my MA permit in a few months. New England states don’t accept anyone’s permits, so you need to apply to every state. Maine, NH and CT will issue you a permit by mail if you send them a copy of a permit from ANY state.Vermont is the only N.E. state that doesn’t require any permit in order to carry.

        • avatarGreg Camp says:

          Joe Matafome, New Hampshire and Maine recognize an Arkansas permit, and Vermont accepts everyone. The other New England states take an entirely too Old English approach to gun carry.

        • avatarHere Iam says:

          NH honors FL CCW & vice versa…


          matt_

        • avatarMike S says:

          NH only recognizes FL resident permits. IIRC, they do not recognize any non-resident permits but their own.

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Correct. Concealed weapon covers more than just firearms, hence the name. See Fl. Stat. § 790.01 – Carrying Concealed Weapons and Fl. Stat. § 790.06 – License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.

    • In Arizona (with an AZ CCW) you can carry any weapon whatsoever as long as it is legal.

    • avatarLongPurple says:

      It makes more sense than other state laws, where only the means of deadly force is “permitted” to the CCW holder.
      If the situation can be handled by a Taser, or other “less than lethal” weapon, and you choose to arm yourself accordingly, it’s a lot more humane and sensible to use minimal force, if you have something in the way of a .45 as a “last resort”.
      It is the application of the “a fortiore” principle (if the greater, then certainly the lesser). In effect, if a person is qualified to carry the tools of deadly force e.g. a .45 pistol, they are surely qualified to carry the tools of LTL force, such as a taser, club, or other such instrument.

  13. avatarTTACer says:

    Headline: Muslim Animist Jew Wiccan exploits “loophole” in Constitution!

  14. avatarIng says:

    You want to talk about a slippery slope and the lowest common denominator, how about the definition of “weapon.” The university where I went to school and now work has a list of weapons that are prohibited on campus, including knives, slingshots, and lasers. Yes, LASERS.

    Between my small collection of belt knives, the lockblade pocket knife I carry everywhere, and my imperial issue Stormtrooper blaster (collector’s item; it saw action on the Moon of Endor, and may have even shot an Ewok), it seems I’ve been continually breaking the law for nearly 11 years.

    • avatarBoris says:

      I always cringe when the media, cops, gunstore counter guys, tacticool dudes, etc etc etc use the term “weapon” when describing a gun.

      Guns are guns, not weapons. A rock can be a weapon if used to assault somebody, but a rock is a rock, and a gun is a gun.

      When I am target shooting I am using a gun, not a “weapon.”

  15. avataralbo says:

    I’m from Pennsylvania, and we’re surrounded by gun-fearing wussy states.

    But I have a question: what’s this “firearms training before getting a CCW” thing? Don’t those states treat you like responsible adults? I mean, taking a course before you get your hunting license at age 12, sure, but before a CCW? Crazy stuff, that.

    • avatarKelly in GA says:

      I hear you there. In Georgia, it’s 1) are you 21, 2) are you legal to own a firearm? Okay, give us about 50 bucks, some finger prints and about two weeks.

  16. avatarJOE MATAFOME says:

    You’re correct Greg, I answered a little to quickly.

  17. avatarBoris says:

    Why are all these various “permits” from various states needed anyway when we have the 2nd Amendment?

  18. avatarDogman says:

    I had a Florida non-resident license as a legal means to carry concealed in my home state of Louisiana until our illustrious legislators passed the requirement that Louisiana citizens must have a Louisiana permit. So I got a Louisiana permit and all is well. Or not. New Mexico did not have reciprocity with Louisiana at the time and I travel to New Mexico often. So I decided to keep the Florida permit up-to-date for that one single state. Then New Mexico and Louisiana signed reciprocity agreements so I figured I could drop the Florida permit next go-around. Not so fast. New Mexico decided to review their reciprocity agreements and Louisiana (jumping the gun, as usual) thought this meant the reciprocity agreement was voided so they dropped reciprocity with New Mexico (or maybe not–I can’t tell anymore). But New Mexico still tells me they have reciprocity with Louisiana (or maybe not). This is supposed to make perfect sense to the Common Man, trying to muddle through life and not ruffle any legal feathers?

    My advice is to get as many non-resident permits as you are qualified to have because the politicians and bureaucrats will continue to play with your legal status.

  19. avatarSid says:

    This article could’ve been summed up in about one word…..

    Privacy.

    We’ve already seen liberal print media publicize addresses of CCW holders. And with the NSA giving us great indication our govt is turning into big brother, it’s no wonder people choosing to exercise their rights are leery of putting their information out there.

    With many states between home and Florida, it increases the margin of security for private information to remain that way.

  20. avatarMoe Bryan says:

    Why would an Ohio resident get a FL permit? simple, wheh traveling, more states honor the Fl permit than the Ohio permit. As a Holder of both, it was far easier to get the permit in Ohio, and cheaper. Total turn around time , less than 1 month. In Fl there currently is a 90 working day backlog.

  21. avatarMoe Bryan says:

    Why would an Ohio resident get a FL permit? simple, when traveling, more states honor the Fl permit than the Ohio permit. As a Holder of both, it was far easier to get the permit in Ohio, and cheaper. Total turn around time , less than 1 month. In Fl there currently is a 90 working day backlog.

  22. avatarLarry says:

    I have talked too some vets they said the reason they got flordia NR ccw was they Honor there DD214 where OHIO does not.

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