Cinemark Theaters’ No Firearms Policy

 

“Headquartered in Plano, TX, Cinemark Holdings, Inc. is a leader in the motion picture exhibition industry with 459 theatres and 5,181 screens in the U.S. and Latin America as of March 31, 2012,” their website reports. Cinemark owns the Century 16 movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, scene of last night’s mass shooting. Cinemark doesn’t allow anyone other than law enforcement officers to carry legal firearms in their theaters. The ban hadn’t escape the attention of some of Cinemark’s law-abiding, gun-toting customers—even before last night’s homicidal frenzy. Make the jump for the story of a Cinemark patron ejected from the cinema for Open Carrying [via defensivecarry.com] . . .

A friend and I decided to go see Law Abiding Citizen [in Anchorage Alaska] after attending a local 2nd Amendment organization Banquet. We were already open carrying from the Banquet so we didn’t bother putting on our jackets. We made our way into the theater and stood in line to purchase our tickets, so far there wasn’t any problems.

I was OCing my 1911, my friend was OCing his G22, and we purchased our tickets and made our way to the theater so we could get good seats. As we near our theater two managers a male and female come out of nowhere and the conversation goes something like this . . .

Manager: Excuse me guys but firearms are not allowed in here, you’ll have to put them in your vehicle.

My friend: Really when did that happen, I’ve carried here many times with no problem, well we’d like to see your policy on that please!

Manager: Okay come with me

We followed the manager up to the ticket counter and he showed us this small cardboard sign that said “NO FIREARMS ALLOWED” at the very bottom. We told the manager that we wished to receive a full refund and we would not be returning to the theater in the future. He said nothing, and we were given our refunds with no further problems . . .

We ended up going to a shopping mall that has a theater inside and we were able to see our movie without being asked to leave . . .

This is indeed the slight inconvenience we put up with, but I really feel if enough people got behind this “no guns = no money” that businesses would change their policies real quick. However I don’t see that happening anytime soon because most people are too lazy to take a stand.

Over at forum.opencarry.org, commentator thx997303 also had words with Cinemark about their weapons policy, this time at the corporate level.

I sent an e-mail to Cinemark Corporate to inquire as to their policy on firearms.

I got a call today, from Dan Myers with Cinemark Corporate, and he informed me that Cinemark’s official policy is that ONLY LEO’S CAN CARRY INTO THEIR THEATERS

NO CONCEALED WEAPONS, NO OC.

He asked me that we not send e-mails to tell them their policy sucks.

There are other similar encounters on the net. Suffice it to say, gun owners should think twice about giving their money to companies that don’t respect their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. And think even more carefully about being in crowded public places where they can’t carry.

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About Robert Farago

Robert Farago is the Publisher of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun of guns.

193 Responses to Cinemark Theaters’ No Firearms Policy

  1. avatarDaryn says:

    Ive never noticed that sign or policy at our cinimarks here in Texas. Interesting.

    • avatarMhughes says:

      No 30.06 sign at the one i go to, amc on the otherhand displays one on everydoor and i wont go there

    • avatarRyan says:

      They have no 30.06 sign so I will continue carrying to watch my movies. If they were to add the signs I would quit patronizing them. The only place that unfortunately disarms me is my college. If we get campus carry passed I will never be disarmed

    • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      No 30.06 means they have to confront you and demand that you leave, any signage that is not 30.06 or 51% is not valid notification.

      Still, now that I know, I probably won’t be visiting Cinemarks.. I usually don’t, but there’s a car charger conveniently located near a local theater, and you can get a pretty good charge over 2 hours..

    • avatarpaul says:

      30.06 notices went up October 2013 at Cinemarks in Texas.

      I live across the street from one. I don’t go there anymore.

  2. avatarspymyeyes says:

    Well guys,

    As was covered here in a prior article and heavily commented on, the guy in the florida internet cafe shooting PROVED that accurate, aimed, return fire does indeed have an effect on said bad guy or guys, unless bath salts or similar mind bending things are involved.

    If just ONE person was armed in that POS commie movie theater and took this Ahole under fire it might have saved some kids life that was just running for an exit.

    I will NEVER go anywhere where the commies have taken over america and try to tell me I have to “check” my firearm. My gun is just as safe in my custom-made & fit leather holster as a policemans is and if my life is on the line then I will pull it and use it to defend myself with it or those I choose to and no stinking commie is going to tell me otherwise in the free state of NH.

    • avatarCurzen says:

      I don’t think you can accurately return fire in a crowded dark and according to some reports teargas filled cinema where on top of that a bunch of people in batman costumes are hopping around.

      • avatarRob from Michigan says:

        Return fire could have sent that guy running for the door Being armed is better than not being armed sitting in a chair waiting to be shot

        • avatarVunderkint says:

          A challenging situation for return fire with the gas and now I hear reports that the man had body armor even on his throat a gas mask and didn’t he have some kind of helmet too? I guess it depends on how close you could get to deliver a face shot through his gas mask, that’s why it’s so important to practice with your weapon. But tell me what father wouldn’t have tried his best to save his family and others even against superior firepower. Cowards seek out the sheep but not really expecting the Wolf among them, sure wish there could have been one.

        • avatarJon buscho says:

          Yes. If only two or three had ‘missed’ the sign. Return firepower would have been an option maybe, depending on the teargas. (NOT fun, I have experienced it.) I will continue to never go places that ‘my little friend’ is not welcome….

      • avatarJosh says:

        Yeah, good call Curzen. I’d much rather just watch my children die and get shot myself.

      • avatarMichael B. says:

        Aim for the muzzle flashes. Shoot. Rinse, repeat.

        • avatarMichael B. says:

          Also, from the articles I’ve read most people either dropped to the floor or ran to the exits. He walked up the aisle shooting.

          I don’t care if I had an entirely clear shot or not, I’d shoot. If a round narrowly missed him or went through him and hurt someone else, whatever. I’ll deal with the consequences later. My main priority is not ****ing dying and more people would be killed if you did nothing at all anyway.

        • avatartwency says:

          Michael B. “If a round narrowly missed him or went through him and hurt someone else, whatever.”

          o_O

      • avatarJMB says:

        The killer didn’t have any problem firing accurately under the same conditions

        • avatarNathan says:

          He was not firing accurately. He was firing indiscriminately. Do that when you shoot back, you’re gonna kill innocent people just as much as he is.

        • avatarcmd says:

          Wearing a gas mask and not giving a shit who he shot. Not the same as a law abiding citizen concerned about where or who his or her rounds would hit. Hitting a moving target wearing body armor in a crowded theater with bystanders running everywhere and smoke or tear gas affecting your vision would be a hard shot. I would rather have a gun to be able make that shot if I could but I honestly cannot say I would shoot.

        • avatarJMB says:

          Nathan Indiscriminately does not mean he did not aim, he meant he had no specific target as in only shooting whites or just men or just employees. He hit 64 people, you cannot tell me he was not aiming and there is zero question that if I was in that theater, I could have hit him or at least distracted him so some people would escape. I would hit him if I had to run right up to him and shoot point blank and the chances are that more people would be doing the same if allowed to be armed. Most people would rather have a fighting chance than to just sit there and be slaughtered. How did the unarmed thing work out for the Jews in WWII?

        • avatarHAVE GUN says:

          @ JMB
          “”He hit 64 people, you cannot tell me he was not aiming”

          Point and shoot is not aiming.

          Can’t say what I would do. You can bet your sweet bippy, not hurting innocent people would be top on my mind.

        • avatarMike says:

          Not only did the killer not have trouble firing under those circumstances (and to hit that many, he was aiming, not just shooting indiscriminately), but the solution is to call for the cops to respond … who will be faced with the exact same scenario- dark theater, lots of victims, one shooter to locate and eliminate. The difference is that as a patron who is there and looking at the bad guy, you KNOW where he is. The cops have to locate him. You’re also there several minutes before the cops are.

          Oh, cops have training? Yes, they do. So do some CCW permitholders. Oh, cops have flashlights? Yes, they do. So do some CCW permitholders.

          But what do I know, I’m just a cop.

        • avatarwilliam says:

          “Nathan says:
          July 20, 2012 at 09:45

          He was not firing accurately. He was firing indiscriminately. Do that when you shoot back, you’re gonna kill innocent people just as much as he is.

          =============================

          uh…yeah.
          So its MUCH better to do NOTHING and die…and watch others die with NO CHANCE of survival.
          Someone ‘may’ get shot by MY gun if I try to shoot the guy who IS going to kill 15 people.
          Very perverse logic you have there.

      • You may be able to return fire better with illumination on your handgun. Darkened theater isn’t that much different from a park at night; look for the report of the weapon and the muzzle flash. (Like to know if the Aurora shooter’s gear was muzzled or not.)

        LASER on the handgun would also help to acquire your shooter. It’s why they make the two products.

        Oh, and the no-guns policy always helps patron safety, doesn’t it?

        • avatarCurzen says:

          whenever the topic of concealed carry and businesses not permitting it comes up there are a bunch of comments from internet tough guys going “hurr durr, concealed is concealed, I pack anyway” so I don’t know, if those guys are all for real that sign shouldn’t have had much of an effect on limiting the number of carrying individuals.

        • avatarVunderkint says:

          John, some very good recommendation about the laser sight have considered acquiring one for my carry gun but kept putting it off and I never got around to it, the new ones that are incorporated into the grip look like the ticket and I think I’ll put it on my 357 Magnum instead of the 38 caliber I’ve been carrying for comfort reasons, somehow more stopping power seems more important now than it did yesterday.

      • avatarjwm says:

        we got hit with tear gas as part of our training. we also learned to fight in low light and other crappy conditions. i wonder how many trained veterans were in that theater only to be hamstrung by the policy of the company. a lot of lawsuits are going to be filed after this. at least one should be filed by a cc holder that was denied the right to defend themselves.

        • avatarVunderkint says:

          I’d contribute to that mans legal fund bringing a lawsuit because he was denied the right to defend himself in the theater and I’m sure I won’t be alone.

        • avatarjb says:

          Your right brother. I was also trained to fight in a teargas filled room; without a mask, to fire my weapon accurately. But I do follow the law, I don’t carry if it’s posted. I just go some place else. The anti gun people will never see until it happens to them, and they still won’t see the answer. People kill people not an inanimate object.

      • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

        Tritium sights or a laser could help, but even just getting the shooter to seek cover would give fleeing folks a few extra seconds, and could have meant the difference between life or death for them.

        • avatarMoonshine7102 says:

          Problem is, lasers work both ways when there’s smoke/gas.

        • avatarwilliam says:

          “.. but even just getting the shooter to seek cover would give fleeing folks a few extra seconds, and could have meant the difference between life or death for them.”
          =========================================
          Exactly.
          Even if you cant take him out just getting him on the defensive and his mind off his mission for a few seconds could make the difference between a dozen lives being lost or saved.
          Then when the place is cleared more you take his @@@ down with a head/neck shot.

      • avatarJim Montgomery says:

        Don’t think…practice and know your abilities.

      • avatarA says:

        If you have night sights, which are not at all expensive, it is simple to aim in a dark theater.

      • avatarzanydr says:

        better to be in a gunfight than a massacre

      • avatarChris says:

        Curzen,, so you don’t think someone could return fire in that dark theater ,, how do you think this guy shot 70 people if it was so dark,and full of smoke.. he just walked up to them and shot them, so anyone else could of dispatched him better because anyone carrying that night would of been a better shot because they had better training and control

    • avatarSammy says:

      Something is rotten in Colorado. Something about the timing of this tragedy is a bit odd. Obviously “high power assault or hunting ” weapons were used if what I heard about wall penetration if true. This happening within a week of the ATT treaty being signed is more than convenient . A Manchurian shooter is not so tin foil an idea when you consider that 1 that this is as anit personal defense administration as we have ever had-2 these are some of the folks who tried the fraudulent Fast and Furious debacle so as to sway national and world attitudes towards gun banning. I would like to see a toxicology report on the shooter looking for psychotropic drugs especial in high dosages. I’m not saying this is so, but they will stop at nothing. Their regard for human life and honesty was displayed during F&F and currently with the Holder stonewall. And they sign the ATT next week. How many congressmen will stick their finger in the wind and possibly change their decision on whether to ratify it or not depending upon “which will get me more votes come November”, or a sudden “transition of opinion”? These are desperate people facing possible ouster in 3 months. Meanwhile the MSM is trying their damn-est to tie the shooter to the Tea Party. I smell a political pile of BS. Or at the very least “Not letting a crisis to go to waste”.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        Your tinfoil hat is a little tight.

      • avatarGrahamsterdam says:

        It’s a false flag event. Find a troubled youth, feed him all the drugs and ammo he wants – then send him on a mission.

        He (James Holmes) and the patrons are expendable in the end-game to ban the EVIL “assault weapons” and ultimately all private firearms. Since the Fast and Furious thing blew up on them, they have to get people *ANGRY* at those -guns- that just go around killing people by themselves. Maybe then they might get their votes, and start a civil war in the process trying to confiscate all the weapons. All you have to do is look at Chicago to see that “gun control” only gets decent citizens dead.

      • avatarVunderkint says:

        Sammy, you might have a hold of the tale of something there that’s wagging the dog, after fast and furious I wouldn’t put anything past this group of people that have grown accustomed to power that are possibly losing it can do desperate things. The talk lately about the signing of the small arms Treaty and the propaganda foisted by many that somehow the treaty can supersede our Constitution and Bill of Rights which it certainly CAN NOT! (Check the link)
        But it wouldn’t be the first time they’ve tried to pull the wool over the American people eyes.

        • avatartarkas says:

          1963, Lee Harvey Oswald Leftwing
          commie punk. Probably CIA stooge too. Whether he shot Kennedy, the tooth fairy or the Mafia, the results were the biggest anti 2nd amendment reaction so far. The National Firearms Act, closely modeled on laws enacted in Germany in the mid 1930s.
          Laws that allowed the Chancellor for life to essentially disarm the private citizens of a sophisticated modern “civilized” country.

          If Joseph Goebbles had access to television, we would all be speaking German.

      • avatarIconic Freedom says:

        If people are raging against media/gov’t but suddenly turn over their trust when it comes to this situation, something illogical is happening in that person’s mind

        question everything

        what is the lie a person tells himself when he beLIEves something

    • avatarbrad compton says:

      right on brother!

    • avatarHeath says:

      really? commie? wow. thought that kinda of term was out with the 60′s. people think they have rights , they are more privileges. and all of those privileges can be taken away from you in this country. and commie has nothing to do with it. pigheaded bigots like yourself are part of the problem , not the solution.

      • avatarWhilemyCZgentlyweeps says:

        Heath – for what’s its worth, Lee Harvey Oswald was a communist. He defected to Russia for a time and certainly identified as a communist. At the time, many thought that the killer was a right-winger, but that was not the case.

        We don’t have gun “privileges” here is the US. Rather, we have gun rights. These rights derive from our natural right to self-defense as recognized (but not created) and protected by our Constitution. The right to keep and bear arms also is a bulwark against an overbearing and tyrannical government that may act to deny, or in contravention, of those rights that are recognized in our Constitution.

        Most communist regimes had written constitutions that, in theory, seemed to offer their citizens comparable freedoms, the reality was often quite difference, as evinced by, say, the over 2.5 – 5 million dead in the Holodomor, 1 million in the Great Terror, and the millions of others who starved to death while digging their own graves in the Gulag. Sometimes, their bones poke their way out the tundra as a mute testament to the privileges that had as Soviet subjects.

        The same bloody tune was played again and again, differing only in tempo, length, and time signature, in places like China, Cuba, Cambodia, North Korea, etc. Rest assured, gun rights were never, ever on the agenda in any of those places

        In my humble opinion, the use of commie as a term of opprobrium is entirely appropriate in whatever era.

      • avatarStanleyII says:

        “Privileges”?

        Really? You don’t know much about the founding of this country, do you? It’s privilege that puts one man over another. It’s privilege that begats tyranny. It’s our unalienable, god given, natural rights that make us equals. These cannot be given nor taken away. They just are. Our founders understood this and strove to create a country, through a document that is ingenious by simply stating what “is”. It merely confirms that no government should be given the power to take these life rights away.

        I would humbly suggest that you study a bit more or… Make the move to a country that shares your beliefs. You may be a bit happier. Or perhaps not. Maybe a bit of time in one of those fastly deteriorating countries may help you realize that the good ole US of A may not be perfect but it’s darn close.

        Have a good day.

  3. avatarHulley says:

    I refuse to give my buisness to places that do not allow firearms and those that do openly I let them know I appreciate it. Simply as that, so far I learned I can live without whatever some anti-2a buisness is selling.

  4. avatarSteve says:

    “This is indeed the slight inconvenience we put up with, but I really feel if enough people got behind this “no guns = no money” that businesses would change their policies real quick.”

    Really? You believe that there are enough folks that Open Carry that their boycott could get someone to change their policy…

    You must be an Optimist.

    Besides, there are enough problems with OC from a tactics standpoint, that you should probably CC. Especially since you live in Alaska where Concealed Carry is legal without a permit (Right?).

    Open carry has its place, but movie theaters and other public places are better suited to CC because Surprise is what will allow you to effectively make use of your sidearm when confronted by one of These kind of lunatics:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-respond-to-shooting-at-colorado-mall-hospital-preparing-for-several-victims-possible/2012/07/20/gJQAZOuTxW_story.html

    • avatarJMB says:

      We got a mall and several store where I live to change their policy by doing just that, it can work. You get enough calls complaining about it and they will change their minds. In Ohio, we have a website that posts stores that won’t allow carry so people won’t go there, people use this list to call the stores and complain and it works quite often. Ohioccw.org

    • avatarDukester says:

      It happened with Walmart in red states……just sayin’…..

    • avatarEvan says:

      You don’t have to OC to take business owners to task. You don’t even have to be carrying or have a carry permit to do it.

      You DO have to decide, once discovering they have a no guns policy, to stand on principle and:

      1. talk to a manager, explain your position
      2. ask for a refund if you’ve already spent money
      3. tell them you won’t return until the policy changes
      4. tell them you’ll spread the word
      5. leave and stand by your word

      Yes it will be inconvenient to you, especially if alternative businesses are few or absent. But you’ll never get the policies to change it you expect other people to do it.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      “Really? You believe that there are enough folks that Open Carry that their boycott could get someone to change their policy…”
      ===============================================
      Then you need to explain why 99.999% of the businesses who CAN lawfully post ‘no gun’ signs choose not to.
      Even banks here in my home town took them down when they realized the dangers of posting them….which ISNT that they are losing any real money..but that they are doing precisely what this theater did…telling the criminals to come on in because no one will be able to stop them.

      after being targeted for robbery after robbery most of the banks in Ohio here got the message and took the signs down.

  5. avatarGeoff says:

    From the initial reports a CCW might not have even been able to drop this bad guy safely. Using smoke/gas, and a crowded theater are not when I would employ my Firearm. On top of that he was wearing a BP vest according to reports. This was a planned and well executed murder, in a Gun Free Zone. I hope the guy fries.

    • avatarspymyeyes says:

      Sorry Geoff,

      I am a very “aware” person and ALWAYS on the lookout for my personal safety.
      When I do go into public building I look for fire exits and make note of stairwells as well as how to GTFO from wherever I am inside the building meaning windows included.

      SO, sitting in a darkend movie theater and seeing a person in full military riot gear, gas mask, and weapons, being let in through an EMERGENCY EXIT (wich everyone who has ever been in a movie theater knows you can plainly see from whereever you are sitting) I would be drawing my weapon as I slide to the floor pulling my wife with me who would also draw her weapon.

      I will NOT go down without a fight. I did not beat my 11 months of chemo and operations by being a quitter or meekly submitting to other peoples wishes.

      SO Geoff, coming through that door, throwing his “gas/smoke?” canister would NOT instantly incapacitate anyone not directly in its area of effect and the SECOND that shotgun appears he would be under fire by me & mine.

      • avatarhmmmmm says:

        LOL – whatever you say mall ninja! You should get in touch with the families and tell THEM that all they needed was a badass like you there and it would never have happened.

        Man you keyboard warriors crack me up – a real man can admit that there are situations that he cannot deal with. I seriously doubt any more than 0.1% of people would be quick enough to do jack about a man storming in with gas and opening fire that quickly. Do you think you can analyze, draw, and accurately shoot from a relaxed sitting position in less than a second spymyeyes? Really? Because if you do I have a bridge to sell you.

        • avatarspymyeyes says:

          it is called being aware of your surroundings and game plannig all the time.

          it called being concerned for your own safety and survival.

          it is called: pratice, pratice, pratice.

          and yes I practice from a seated, standing, kneeling, and how to draw from each from my CC holster.

          So, yes I would feel confident enough to take a shot while he was looking away and walking towards me blinded by his own fire.

          and I would love to use a sniveling coward like you as human shield and to steady my arm as I open fire Mr. hmmmmmmmmm!

        • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

          Nah, it’s called being a blowhard mall ninja kook whose mouth and ego are way bigger than his actual ability.

          Lots of the cinema goers were under the impression this was laid on for the premiere by the cinema, but I’m sure you would have correctly analyzed and dropped the guy before he even got through the door, right? Despite it being dark, and with many VERY loud noises and explosions on screen at the same time, and many of the staff and patrons being in fancy dress.

        • avatarMatthew says:

          FLAME DELETED

        • avatarbobm001 says:

          This is why if you do have a CCP you MUST train, train, train, to become an “instictive shooter”. IPSC is the means to this skillset. For what good does it do to CC if you CAN’T HIT WHAT YOU SHOOT AT? There are a lot of cops out there that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. That fact is proven.

      • avatarGeoff says:

        spymyeyes, I think you mis-understand me I do much of the same things and would also be seeking cover and drawing immediately. and if an opportunity to defend myself arose I would take it. much as you describe, I was highlighting that standing up and engaging the would be shooter in a crowded theater with people running and and panicking would not be ideal circumstances to try and bring the gunman down. Now If I’ve covered and can ambush the gunman that is different. I am responsible for every round I fire, in a gas cloud in the dark theater with people running away in my line of fire I am not going to take that shot. Nor am I going to answer with a hail of lead someone coming through an exit door. Remember this was a primere midnight showing. He incapacitated people by giving them first what was not unexpected, a show a diversion etc. It was frankly a startling good tactic.

        • avatarHeath says:

          a keyboard Chuck Norris indeed. sorry. i dont believe all the talk. WOULDA , COULDA, SHOULDA. You cant change anything that happens. once it happens . its done. all the big talk in the world wont change it. nore talking like a 10 foot tall bulleproof ninja doesnt either.

      • avatarrichard says:

        The thing was that the theater had people dressed up in costumes. It was opening night for batman, so some people showed up dressed up. He got in wearing a vest and guns because people figured he was just playing along.

        In a different situation then he would of stuck out like a sore thumb to people to notice.

    • avatarimrambi says:

      The criminal never saw the sign (if there was one) as reports are saying he entered in through the emergency exit.

      The criminal had a well thought out plan, and executed it well, to the demise of many. I wonder if there was an inside person or if the criminal had worked at the place as an emergency sound should have gone off, but so far the reports are not saying any sound happened.

      • avatarJim Montgomery says:

        imrambi are you inferring that had a sign been posted on the emergency exit the gunman would have turned around and went back to his vehicle, thwarting his attack??? The signs only deter law-abiding citizens.

        • avatarHawke says:

          Jim,
          I think he is saying the same as you, the signs only apply to the law-abiding citizens. The BG will pay it no heed.

      • avatarGrahamsterdam says:

        I’ve worked on fire alarm systems in big theaters like that. If smoke is detected anywhere the projectors shut down, house lights come on at the brightest, and a voice directs people with instructions in between the coded “alarm signal” sound. IOW – if the fire detection system was working, the theory of “too hard to see” is out the window. I’m not the best shot in the world, but I can hit a perp. in a movie theater if given a clear path.

    • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      Even without being fully aware, even with the body armor, better to have a small chance than none. Plus, while body armor may stop a +P or +P+ round from penetrating, the kinetic energy would register as body blows and certainly distract the nutjob, possibly long enough to save lives.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      “Man you keyboard warriors crack me up – a real man can admit that there are situations that he cannot deal with.”
      ================================================
      So by YOUR ridiculous illogic it is BETTER to be UNARMED because there MAY be some situation where it might be hard to shoot the shooter?
      I have a little new for you, some of US DO pay attention to details a little better than some of YOU.
      I’d rather be armed and aware than unarmed and oblivious.

  6. avatarPaul says:

    How is it, that this type of thing far more often with commie-crats in office. Last year someone allegedly shot at the Whore House. Now we have this incident. Shootings on school campuses, shootings on an Army base, which this admin will not prosecute.

    How many shootings like this occured under G.W.? How many occured under Clintoon? What ever happened to the alleged shooter of the whore house when he was in office? Answer, NOTHING, ZIP, NADA.! Thats what happened! This is no co-incidence. The Commies want our guns to subvert us. What better way than to stage shootings. If and when this person is caught, he will be young, white, and under age to own a firearm.

    Who will get blamed? US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lawful firearm owners will be blamed. Not the drugs this jerk used, not his good liberal parents that never saw this coming. Nope it will be you and me! What really pisses me off is that WE were not there, but we get the blame!

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Paul: If and when this person is caught, he will be young, white, and under age to own a firearm.

      He was caught before you heard about it. He was not underage.

      How is it, that this type of thing far more often with commie-crats in office.

      A thumbnail check of Wikipedia finds “this type of thing” happened 5-6 times under Reagan, a couple under Bush I, 3 under Clinton, 4-5 under Bush II, and I think this makes 10 under Obama. While Obama is definitely ahead of the curve, as Reagan and Bush II each had two terms to hit their numbers, I’m still not sure you can draw a correllation between the President and the number of crazy people.

  7. avatarDirk Diggler says:

    fortunately, no guns signs have no weight of law in Missouri (except on the bus/metro system). I make sure I CC everywhere I go, even movie theaters. I even went to the premiere of the Navy Seal movie a few months back (theater had the magic sign up) and a buddy who is a Navy recruiter made sure he sat next to me. When I asked him why, he said that he couldn’t carry (by order) but he knew I would be armed and if the SHTF, he wanted to get out. Tells you a lot . . . .

    • avatarChaz says:

      no guns signs have no weight of law in Missouri

      But:
      “Carrying a concealed firearm in any location specified [e.g. private or public property where posted] is not a criminal act. However, you can be denied access to the premises or may be removed from the premises for doing so. If a peace officer is summoned:
      • Upon the first offense, you can be cited and fined up to $100.
      • If within six months, a second offense occurs, you can be fined up to $200, and your concealed firearms endorsement can be suspended for a period of one year.
      • If within one year of the first offense a third citation for a similar violation is issued, you may be fined up to $500, and your concealed carry endorsement revoked. If your concealed carry endorsement is revoked, you are not eligible for the endorsement for a period of three years.”

      from Missouri Highway Patrol Brochure

      • avatarAnon in CT says:

        So $100 on the very slight chance you get caught? Sounds like a reasonable cost to pay if you believe it is a matter of safety and security.

      • avatarDirk Diggler says:

        Chaz – you are mis-reading the statute. “IF A PEACE OFFICER IS SUMMONED” . . .

        (1) They have to see your weapon
        (2) They have to tell you to leave (more likely) or they call the cops immediately (less likely)
        (3) Police will question you and ascertain you have a permit. They have to decide to cite you, which is paperwork, vs asking you to just go away. If you don’t and they cite you, it is a $100 fine.

        Trust me, I know this statute in and out and my CCW trainer was a cop. He even told us to ignore the signs and a patrol officer would not bother us if we were cooperative. Frankly, in his view, he said police welcomed CCW’ers because we were (a) law abiding (b) present when SHTF and (c) willing to step up to do the right thing.

        Concealed means concealed.

        • avatarJoshua says:

          I’m in Missouri as well. That is the same statement my instructors made. I basically use my best judgement on whether I CC or not past a particular gun buster sign. If I am ever asked to leave I would strictly comply.

          Concealed means concealed.

      • avatarHeath says:

        any establishment can refuse you service if you are refusing to remove your gun from the premises.PERIOD. posted or not posted.

        • avatarwilliam says:

          “any establishment can refuse you service if you are refusing to remove your gun from the premises.PERIOD. posted or not posted.”
          =========================================
          And they have to figure out if you are carrying or not.
          If its concealed they wont. Ive only had one person figure out I was carrying concealed and he was a friend who is a licensed bounty hunter and into all sorts law enforcement stuff I know little about so he knew what to look for, including my adjusting my shirt on one side.
          No one else has noticed a thing.

  8. avatarMike says:

    Guns don`t kill people. People kill people. So much for F&F since the Border agent killed was killed by a criminal from Mexico (the responsible party).

    • avatarWill says:

      The problem is: to convince those who live by their emotions and not by any real logic of this truth.

  9. avatarPaul says:

    There’s no doubt in my mind that armed citizen response to such incidents can indeed reduce the number of fatalities. The police are, at best, minutes away. But as spymyeyes correctly points out, an aware citizen with a weapon can do the right thing and bring a quick end to such a tragedy.

    Gun grabbers will, of course, respond to this incident by forbidding weapons in cinemas (malls, grocery stores, flea markets, wherever). They never seem to notice that the criminals don’t obey those restrictions. The net result is that innocent people are slaughtered with no means of self-defense.

  10. avatarMatt in FL says:

    A Cinemark is one of the three theatres my friends and I frequent (the other two happen to be a Regal and an AMC, so I’ve got a spread). I make a habit of looking and I’ve never seen any signs regarding weapons at any of them. If no weapons is a Cinemark corporate policy, they’re not doing much to make that clear.

    • avatarJMB says:

      Double check Regal, they usually have it posted in real small letters on their rules board on the wall, they don’t put a specific sign up, check their rules board

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        I’ll look more closely next time I’m there, but my policy is if I don’t see it posted clearly on the window of the ticket booth or near the entrance(s), it doesn’t exist. If I have to find the rule written on the inside of the bottom of the bag of popcorn, what the hell’s the point of having the rule, and more specifically, if they clearly care so little about it, why should I follow it?

      • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

        Does your state have signage requirements like Texas? If it’s not a conforming 30.06 or 51% in a prominent place, I don’t even notice it.

        • avatarSamAdams1776 says:

          Yes, Florida requires signage. In most cases I do not patronize them, but if I do have to, I ignore the sign.

        • avatarJason says:

          Signs in Florida mean nothing, ignore them. Unless the place is specifically listed in F.S. 790 it holds no weight legally.

          The worst the theater can do (or other place of business) is ask you to leave…. should you refuse, then they can call the cops and trespass you. Don’t let it get to that point.

          My opinion is.. concealed is concealed…. if they find out I have a gun, something has went horribly wrong — like this incident.

          I’m not sure if I could have made a difference based on the plan and execution of this sicko with the tear gas, caos, and his heavy firepower… but I will assure you that my gun would have been EMPTY if I had any opportunity to stop him.

  11. avatarChas says:

    I don’t think this really happened. After all, gun-free zones work, don’t they? Oh, wait….

  12. avatarChas says:

    “He asked me that we not send e-mails to tell them their policy sucks.”

    In other words, “we don’t give a sh#* what our customers think.”.

  13. avatarResponsible Citizen says:

    As Jeff Coooper taught so well, and so prophetically, it is about a defensive MINDSET above and beyond anything else. Let’s replay the situation and assume there was at least one, perhaps two or three persons in the theater who were thinking and capable of acting defensively.

    In spite of the panic situation, they could have probably tackled the shooter and stopped him from doing as much harm as he did.

    Had there been an armed citizen with a defensive mindset, he may have been armed with a firearm with a laser sighting system and could have taken the shots necessary to stop the shooter, by disabling him.

    I’m sure people will be replaying this scenario many times, but I think we can all agree that this is a good example of why, and how, a person must have a defensive MINDSET above everything else.

    Nobody had the presence of mind to tackle the guy when he had his back turned, which he obviously did as he walked the aisles.

    Tragic situation, indeed.

  14. avatarCarrie Everywhere says:

    Who cares what a sign or policy says? Pack concealed everywhere that doesn’t have a metal detector or where it is criminal to do so. If somebody spies your piece and you are asked to leave, do so. No sweat. Don’t complain. Thank them. Claim forgetfulness. It’s their property.

    And it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. That’s about the GOVERNMENT. Not movie theaters. You are for property rights aren’t you? (-:

    As to Open Carry in places like this, or anywhere outside of hunting or on a trail, it’s a silly practice that scares voting Moms and puts a “shoot me first” sign on you. You guys that insist on doing it are harming all of our 2nd amendment rights, which are not inviolate but are very restrictable if such restrictions prove popular.

    Shooting in a movie theater… when there is an active shooter, ROE changes – for police and for armed citizens. I wasn’t there, I’ll never know. It would have been nice, however, to have 6 or 10 Armed Citizens in there, somebody would have had a shot.

    • avatarJerry Open Carry says:

      Rubbish! before you speak educate yourself. Can you name one Open Carrier who has been targeted ?? I OC everywhere in Wa State. Most people are glad to see it ( moms included , gasp). Visit Opencarry.org read the forums educate yourself. OCing will deter a crime before it occurs, as with CC the perp will in fact commit the crime. From there its a crapshoot, goodluck.

      • avatarSamAdams1776 says:

        Nothing against open carrying; when we can get it back in Florida, I will do so—SOMETIMES. Conceal carry has advantages too! And yes, if someone is plannig an attack, they are likely the first person to be shot–it’s what I would do!

      • avatarwilliam says:

        Actually there is a case of an OC’er who had a bad guy with a gun run up on him and take his gun from him at gun point. Im sure its rare, but it happens.
        I prefer the felon not know I have my gun until its too late for them to do anything about it.

  15. avatarcrosswiredmind says:

    If anyone had drawn and fired on the shooter in this case would have broken Gunsite rules 2 & 4.

    • avatarPaul says:

      Not so, my friend. Rule 2 (never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy) is not broken if I’m aiming at the active shooter. Rule 4 (Always be sure of your target) isn’t broken either. I can’t guarantee that I never miss, but that’s not what the rule is about. Life is uncertain. Weigh the risks and take the best course of action you can based on the danger to others, the danger to yourself, and your knowledge of your abilities.

      • avatarLance says:

        Pretty sure Rule #4 is be sure of your target *and what is beyond it.* Pretty hard to do in a dark, smoke/gas filled theater full of screaming panicked people all trying to get out at the same time. This is definitely a situation for any person, CCW or no, to concentrate more on GTFO in one piece than taking down the bad guy.

        There are situations that advocate offensive measures and there are situations that advocate a quick retreat. I think this one’s the latter.

        Now, change it to a mid-afternoon showing of a movie that’s been out for a few weeks, mostly empty theater and some weirdo decides to shoot up the place and the proper response very well might be different.

      • avatarcrosswiredmind says:

        Unless you were in the very front row, you would break rule 2. And unless you can see in the dark, and through walls, you would break rule 4.

        • avatarjwm says:

          as soon as the cops showed up this guy gave up. i have to believe that even return fire from a mouse gun would have caused him to run. this goblin has a statement to make and he wants to be alive for his 15 minutes with cnn.

        • avatarMatt in FL says:

          As far as the “rule 2&4″ thing goes, consider these two points:

          In a stadium style theatre, if the shooter was by the front exit door, and you were aiming at him, you would be shooting over the heads of basically everyone except the row directly in front of you. That goes double if people are flattened out and playing dead, which many are reported to have done.

          Second, those emergency exit doors down front almost always open to the exterior of the theatre building, which has its own set of hazards, but it’s not nearly the same as a shared wall with a nearby theatre. The point being there is very little likelihood of collateral damage when shooting at/toward the emergency exit door, if that’s where he’s standing.

          Of course, as he moves up the aisle, both situations become more fluid/risky.

        • avatarWill says:

          @jwm.

          Of course he gave up, he completed his mission, his stage. Although he >i>still>/b> was willing to have cops storm his apartment for a little more carnage.

    • avatarMichael B. says:

      lol

      She deleted my polite, well-reasoned comment pointing out that the trailer is weeks old, it’s a fictional movie, and that the trailer most assuredly had nothing to do with the psycho’s actions. I asked her why she was for senseless censorship.

      Boom. Ten minutes later? Gone.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        Michael B: Here ya go, buddy. I posted for you:

        …don’t go off topic, don’t impersonate anyone, don’t get your facts wrong, and don’t bore me.

        You forgot “don’t disagree with me” apparently, since I just saw an on-topic, factual, and (to me) non-boring comment get deleted, because it opposed your vitriol.

        It’s a free country, you can moderate the comments all you want, but at least be honest about your reasons for doing so.

      • avatarMichael B. says:

        Ah, whatever. I hope that I at least made her a wee bit uncomfortable or created a bit of cognitive dissonance. People who call for censorship are just as dangerous as those who call for gun bans. Maybe even moreso.

      • avatarSilver says:

        You can always tell when someone deep down knows they’re wrong when they don’t want truth, but only to cling to their own insanity. This is why gun-grabbers will ALWAYS delete opposing comments.

        • avatarRedreed says:

          It shouldn’t surprise anybody that a person who is against the second amendment, would also be opposed to the first amendment…or the fourth? or the fourteenth? Or doesn’t care a whit about our constitution at all…

      • avatarMike says:

        I checked the site and your comments are there :

        This trailer has been out for weeks and I see nothing wrong with it other than the odd choice of music. It’s a movie. It’s fiction. And I can guarantee you it had nothing to do with this psycho’s actions.

        You’re for senseless censorship. Why?
        Comment by Michael B. — Friday July 20, 2012 @ 7:46am PDT Reply to this post

        Guess the film of the evil trailer, “Gangster Squad”, needs to be shelved— along with “Neighborhood Watch”!

        The mind numbing, politically correct Jihad rolls on!

        Hollywood need never whine about “The Black List” ever again— as the perfectly correct little reactionaries within do more damage than HUAC on its best day.
        Comment by DJT — Friday July 20, 2012 @ 9:56am PDT Reply to this post

        So quit complaining and man up and admit you were wrong.

  16. avatarfreeport56 says:

    …..as hind-sight tells us, if just one person had been able to have a concealed weapon in that theater….how many could have been saved……:(

    • avatarPascal says:

      You assume too much. Its great to Friday morning quarterback. Dark Theater, after midnight, gas, man with shotgun, black gun and pistol and body armor. This is not your average threat.

      If you want to play, the one CCW holder could have tried and he could have been the first one to get a shotgun blast.

      Where you are sitting and how well trained you are and what is happening around you would play a big part.

      I believe many would love to believe they would or could have done something, when stuff like this happens both sides of gun debate should STFU.

      The lesson is be prepared, and sh!t can happen anywhere — other than that, we all assume too much until the situation is right there in front of us and we indvidually need to decide what we would do.

  17. avatarDukester says:

    I think that one reason people do things like this is that there is no reason to be afraid. No only are there signs that tell bad guys where they can be safe from return fire, but the average mentality of most crowds is akin to that of sheep thanks to the degeneration and of our culture. As a result, these guys are able to rack up reasonably high body counts thanks to basically what amounts to liberal politics that restrict the right of a person to defend himself.
    If that guy would have spotted a few OC’ers, or at least been unsure whether or not there might be some CCW’ers in the crowd, he might have chosen a different theater. Thanks to the no gun policies of Cinemark, who I have read owns that theater, he knew he was ok and could kill with impunity.
    Oh yeah, people like Carrie Everywhere can spare me the whole “shoot me first” argument against OC. It is a moronic position that has absolutely no basis in fact. In fact, to the contrary there actually has been data via interviews with felons who said it actually was a deterrent for them. I think it would have had a good chance of working at that theater because the shooter obviously didn’t want to be killed.

    • avatarDirk Diggler says:

      I am not crazy about OC’ing because it can draw attention to you or let someone know you should be the first to draw their ire, but . . . . when I have done it (I didn’;t have my carry permit), most people assumed I was a police officer either off duty or undercover and didn’t really bat an eye. And I did this many times in Ann Arbor, the most liberal city in Michigan.

    • avatarPascal says:

      The BG had body armor, he was prepared to take a hit. There were service members in the ground according to the pentagon who where killed.

      This guy had a clue….we need to wait for the details

  18. avatarLance says:

    Yeah infant it’s not illegal to carry in a place with a no firearms policy but you can be asked to leave.

  19. avatarAharon says:

    “He asked me that we not send e-mails to tell them their policy sucks.”

    Seems like we should all send emails stating that their policy sucks.

  20. avatarPhil says:

    Great, so AMC is owned by the Chinese and Cinemark won’t allow CCW. Where the hell am I supposed to watch movies?

    • avatarKevin says:

      At home, when it comes out on Blu-ray/DVD. Then you don’t give those theater chains any money.

      • avatarAharon says:

        Thats what I do.

      • avatarMatt in FL says:

        BitTorrent.

        Giving the theatre chains money is not really a factor unless you buy food. Their margins on the actual tickets range from razor-thin to nonexistent. That’s why food is so exorbitant; it’s the only way they pay the bills.

        • avatarwilliam says:

          They dont make a dime off me. I wont go into any business where I cant carry….for obvious reasons provided by this story itself.

    • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      Alamo Drafthouse.

  21. avatarBlake says:

    One thing about this tragedy is that it gives people who CCW something to think about and adds to active shooter scenarios we should discuss and plan for.

    Most movie theaters have emergency exits to either side of the movie screen and the exits tend to be visible in low light. Tossing tear gas is not going to immediately affect people sitting higher toward the back of the theater.

    From the reports about the shootings, I think it’s safe to infer that the shooter came in at the bottom and basically shot his way up the steps. People trying to get away would necessarily have to move down the steps toward the shooter, which is obviously a bad idea.

    So, we have an active shooter in a darkened theater? What’s the plan? What scenarios are people with CCW’s going to run through? Do you choose your seat in a theater because it gives you the best view of the screen and put security second? Or, do you shift your thinking and think more about defensive scenarios?

    • avatarspymyeyes says:

      you guys are forgetting the fact that the BAD GUY has the same disadvantages as well as a few more than I & my wife would have.

      It is a dark theater for HIM as well.

      The smoke will obscure HIS vision as well.

      As he is walking up the asile towards you everytime he fires his shotgun HIS nightvison is reduced to purple spots.

      As he is shooting the defenseless people running for the exits WE (my wife & I) can watch him and CHOOSE our shots with care on him while he is NOT LOKKING OUR WAY.

      HIS shotgun blasts will also destroy his hearing more than mine.

      And last but certainly not least, my CC is a raging judge magum revolver that fires .45 long colt rounds @ 255gr. and 454 casull bullets @ 300 gr. and even if they did not penatrate the “body armor” he was wearing, it would have at least broken some ribs! My wife carries a .38 snubbie 115 gr. hollow points and we both carrie 2 speed loaders a piece and my shoulder rig holds 38 loose bullets in 2 ammo pouches under my weak arm.

      My outdoor gun range uses a covered, elevated platform that shoots DOWN into a sand bunker at exactly 50′ and we have gotten quite good at putting the bullets where we want and our grouping improves all the time. I go 2-3 times a week and my wife joins me 1-2 times a week so I know we would have both taken him under aimed fire at the right moment.

      What would you have done?

      • avatarMike says:

        You carry a Raging Judge? You must be tall. No way I could conceal that beast.

      • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

        Tell me spymyeyes – do you do high level, covert mall security and have Shrikes attached to your mall golf cart? You sound awfully familiar…

        • avatarMatt says:

          LMAO.

          Unfortunately, the BG in this situation sounds more like Gecko45 than Spy.

          But, now that you mention it, there is a familiar ring to it.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      “What scenarios are people with CCW’s going to run through? Do you choose your seat in a theater because it gives you the best view of the screen and put security second? Or, do you shift your thinking and think more about defensive scenarios?”
      ==================================
      EVERY situation I am in I am watching everything and everyone.
      I suppose by some drones viewpoint that makes me an armchair warrior or something….as though I would care what they think.

      When I drive or walk anywhere I watch every car I see, every person. 99.99999% of them are going to be every day joes. But that one in a million might not be. Maybe I’ll cross him today, maybe I wont. Ive crossed enough of them in my life, however, to know they are EVERYWHERE and always on the prowl for an oblivious victim.
      Ive been a victim a few times in my life already….completely unprepared in every one of them. The crime being committed is on the criminal. Being unprepared and oblivious was MY fault. I can’t change the criminals but I CAN make sure *I* am watching and aware.

      A few months ago I was present at what I am almost positive was going to be a gas station robbery.
      I had gone in to pay for my gas and grab a soda and was coming back up to the front when two really twitchy acting young men came in. They had a third young man in the car waiting outside the door with the car running the the doors partially opened.
      At first I thought I’d go ahead and walk out before the action began so I didnt end up making matters worse. This place has certainly been robbed before and they will handle it and no one will get hurt.
      As Im eyeing the door to leave a young couple walks in…probably no more than 20 years old, and head towards the soda area themselves.
      The two guys who had come in were finally getting to the counter and one of them kept looking back to see where I was…which at that point was about 5 feet behind them staring a hole in the back of their heads.
      After seeing the couple come in I deduced that if I leave now and either one of these kids panic if they see these guys pull a gun they might panic and then someone gets shot.
      I certainly cannot live with myself now if I leave and this goes badly, so I backed up, keeping my eyes on the hands of these two guys at the counter (who are really acting nuts at this point, but with no discernible reason..almost like they are trying to distract the cashier).
      I backed up far enough to then step to the side slightly behind a shelf where the guy who kept looking back at me couldnt see my hands but could see that I was staring a hole in his head…dead in his eyes when he would look back at me.
      He got really quiet and nudged his partner and they both left the store really quickly.
      Im not sure if they were going to rob the place…or if my staring at the one guy just scared the hell out of them. But what I do know is if they were there to rob or hurt someone Im not going to be the oblivious victim again.
      Better that they were scare for no reason than to for me to think all is well and end up being shot and killed because I wasnt paying attention. My wife deserves better than that.

  22. avatarBrian says:

    These are times that I wished I had finished law school so I could offer my time pro bono to file a civil suit against Cinemark management for their anti-gun policies leading directly to the deaths of their patrons. That said, and has been pointed out numerous times here, Cinemark theaters do not have “30.06″ posting in Texas that prohibit concealed carry, so quite possibly Cinemark leaves it up to their theater managers to enforce such bone-headed policies.

    • avatarDirk Diggler says:

      there are plenty of trial whores who will get paid handsomely off of this tragedy. Cinemark won’t change their policies over this. What would be interesting is whether or not they have written memos (like manufacuturing companies, drug makers, etc) that detail an expected death rate and financial cost. That is the proverbial smoking gun.

    • avatarMike says:

      What happened to the conservative position of personal responsibility? It is the shooters fault these people are dead – not the cinema, not the victims, not the film. The shooter is to blame, remember people kill people, guns don’t.

      • avatarWill says:

        That position went out the window when everyone jumped on the wagon for “it’s not my fault! I was _________________________________” or “I was forced to do it” or whatever excuse they can come up with that absolves themselves of any responsibility.

        Fortunately, a few of us still take responsibility for our own actions and don’t play the blame game.

      • avatarwilliam says:

        Actually the Cinema does take some of the blame here because they disarm their patrons making them much less likely to be able to defend themselves.

        Bad guys commit crimes.
        No gun signs facilitate and encourage those crimes.

  23. avatarJosh says:

    Been following this guys vids for a while now, he has some good points on the matter. Good watch in my opinion.

  24. avatarCJ says:

    How did I know what the abundance on comments would say here. The biggest threat to our 2nd amendment rights are the comments and actions of our pro-gun advocates. I hate to say this but a vast majority of you’ll saying that you would basically do “this and that” if a certain situation happened are full of it and I hope you nor I are ever in one of these situations. Just know this, when you start shooting back “in a tear gas filled, dark theater” and hit a bystander, you’re going to be the one doing 20 years. And yes I always know the comeback, “well at least I’ll be alive”, you know that, how? Remember this and maybe no one will take heed until we have destroyed the right which we all love but the more we support idiot “911 dispatcher ignorers” like Zimmerman or talk about how we would stop this and this from happening we do more damage than any anti-gun campaign will ever do! Now I’ll just sit back and wait for the ignorance…and hope none of us ever are put in the situation. And if I ever am in a situation like this, the first thing I’m going to do is…who knows?…and anyone that says that they do is a liar!

    • avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

      NO! NO! NO!

      My training regimen of pounding bud lights and shooting at whatever I see go past the trailer with my slack-jawed klan buddies is as good as, no, BETTER than any special forces training in the world. If that commie liberal pinko Obummer lover had come into MY cinema I would have taken him down before he even cleared leather!

    • avatarOther Derek says:

      You do realize that the suggestion to Zimmerman came AT THE END OF THE CALL, right?

      Surely you’ve listened to all nine 911 calls related to that incident. They’re all on sanford.gov.

    • avatarrobert kleman says:

      Well Sir, your a bit right, but many of us would not shoot until we were sure of the target a beyond, were not talking just spray bullets at Orange hair, were talking about tring to save lives here, and I’m not getting on you, just tring to clear up a point. sure we all take a chance shooting back, but if Orange hair was allowed to keep shooting it would be worse then not doing anything, most CPL holders know how to shoot as I’m sure you do.

  25. avatarJoshua Wilson says:

    Open carry is for untrained bubbas and fools that seek attention.

    A true professional carries concealed, for the wolf can not tell the sheepdog from the flock until the sheepdog bears it’s fangs.

    • avatarDr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      I tend to agree, though I respect the right to open carry. I would prefer to remain anonymous until the time to act is upon me.

      • avatarwilliam says:

        Im on board.
        I respect my OC brethren but I personally think its a bad idea.
        The element of surprise is key. I dont want a bad guy knowing I have a gun until a 357 slug is entering his chest cavity.

  26. avatarGeorge says:

    I don’t need to see the target clearly, I need to see my front sights and hit the fatal “T”. The 3 things you need to do stop the threat 1. Sh0t placement 2.Sh0t placement 3.Sh0t placement

  27. avatarLadyLiberty says:

    The false stigmas of right-wing Tea Party radicals, once again being shattered in Aurora Colorado.

    A radical far Left-Wing and Registered Democrat and avid Obama Supporter, “Occupy Black Bloc Member James E. Holmes Shoots Up Aurora Co Movie Theater Killing 12 And Wounding 50.

    more

    http://www.examiner.com/article/occupy-black-bloc-member-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater

    Now the guy the news falsely accused is getting death threats!

    http://twitchy.com/2012/07/20/brian-ross-media-malpractice-consequences-falsely-accused-tea-party-member-receiving-threats/

    I won’t give them my business that’s for sure!

  28. The local Cinemark is in The Mall in Sierra Vista, Arizona. The Mall used to have “No Weapons” signs on the entrances. I stayed away. About 6 years ago they removed those signs. So, one day I went to meet my wife for a movie. As I walked up to her, mall security came up on either side of us and let me know that this was a weapons free zone. I told them that the signs had been removed. They took me for a walk, to a large potted palm near the Cinemark ticket booth, with a sign behind it, containing a long list of things you can’t do there, including spitting and carrying weapons. They offered to escort me out of the building. I had them take me to the mall office, and informed the manager that AZ law says no weapons rules MUST be posted at the entrance. Then I was rapidly escorted out the nearest door. Needless to say I have not been there since then, and now that I own a gun store, the story is often told. The Mall and Cinemark may not notice how much business I have cost them, but I know.

    • avatarOther Derek says:

      No, it doesn’t.

      Arizona law says nothing of the sort, only that after a reasonable request has been made that you must leave.

      The only signs that carry the weight of law in AZ are the ones in places that serve alcohol. They are to be posted next to the liquor license. There is a specific exemption in the law for entering a bar/restaurant to check for the sign.

  29. avatarhmmmmmmmm says:

    You know it’s funny – I thought that the concept of “Freedom” would extend to the “freedom” of a business to refuse entry to those carrying guns, if that is what it wished. Perhaps many more patrons prefer a gun free environment than those who wish to carry?

    It seems a lot of people here don’t actually believe in freedom, or choice, if it conflicts with how they want things to be.

    Here’s an honest question: if this cinema chain allowed guns on the premises do you think that policy would save more lives from once in a generation spree killers, or cost more in trash getting upset with each other about talking on their cell phones etc. and shooting the place up?

    I know everybody here would have identified the threat and put him down with one shot to the head across the dark room full of civilians before he even chambered a round, but how about the rest of the public? Do you really want to be in a room with those idiots all unloading at perceived threats too?

    • avatarMatt in FL says:

      Businesses do have the freedom to refuse entry to those carrying guns. I have no disagreement with that. They also have the freedom to accept the consequences of me, and others like me, not patronizing their establishments. Nobody is saying (I don’t think) that they should be forced under penalty of law to accept our armed patronage.

      As far as preventing the “once in a generation spree killer,” my response is that just because it’s never happened there before, doesn’t preclude it happening in the future. So, the “once in a generation” argument is spurious, because there’s a lot of places where it never happened before, and I refused to be rendered unable to defend myself as a result.

      • avatarSanchanim says:

        Don’t forget they can also refuse service based on dress. No Shoes no shirt no service kinda thing.
        They are free to do as they chose.

    • avatarYoshiyahu says:

      I am not a gun owner, but I appreciate the intelligent, thoughtful, and informative comments on this foum thread today. I can definitely understand the opinion that a few well-trained and armed citizens could have drastically reduced the death toll in this act of savagery.

      Hmmmm’s point doesn’t make sense to me, because I live in Southern California, without liberal gun carrying laws, and yet we have innocent people murdered on a daily basis by those idiots Hmmmm is talking about. Gangbangers are pathetic. If I were to decide to purchase and use a firearm, I would take NRA classes. I would train at the range. I would take PRIDE in my ability to hit my target immediately and accurately. I would NOT spray bullets all over the place in a pathetic display of ineptitude and murder little kids and other bystanders far more often than they do their intended target. I know it’s not politically correct, but I think the best thing we could do in Southern California would be to stop the gun buyback programs, and start free classes for gangbangers on gun usage and safety. Then at least they’d hit their targets more often and murder innocents less often and we’d have dozens more kids alive every year.

      Likewise, sensational acts like today’s aside, there are a couple thousand deaths each year in the US because guns are not properly emptied and secured. If people got education and training, there would be a lot fewer poor little kids dying because mom and dad didn’t secure their firearm properly. Likewise, people are less likely to do something stupid in the heat of passion if their firearm is locked up properly.

      It’s clear that actual NRA members and others who are well-trained and responsible are not the problem. So how to reach the idiots that are causing problems and giving everyone else a bad name? I don’t think we can ever stop crazy people from doing what this guy did today, but the other tens of thousands of gun crimes in the US — surely we can do more without stupid attempts to ensure that only criminals are armed.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      “Do you really want to be in a room with those idiots all unloading at perceived threats too?”
      ============================================
      Im sorry, but YOU may be an idiot…that does not mean the rest of us are.
      Stop projecting. There have been ten thousand armed self defense cases all over this country…this very easily could have been one more on that list had someone had a gun.
      What we DO know is because of these pukes who own the cinema there was ZERO CHANCE of ANYONE being saved by return fire.
      You drones may prefer to have ZERO opportunity but those of use who can use our heads to do the math prefer to have at least some of the odds not stacked entirely against us.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      “Here’s an honest question: if this cinema chain allowed guns on the premises do you think that policy would save more lives from once in a generation spree killers, or cost more in trash getting upset with each other about talking on their cell phones etc. and shooting the place up?”
      ======================================================
      And heres an honest response to the idiocy presented in the question.
      The sort who are capable of breaking the law and killing someone with a gun over stupid stuff like this are generally the sort who are already carrying guns illegally to begin with. Get a clue.

      The sort who ARENT the sort mentioned above are the sort who MUST BE ALLOWED the opportunity to DEFEND themselves when the sort above show up with a gun, licensed or not, in an effort to stop the sort above from getting as high a body count

      I realize this blows right past your head but by your fallacious reasoning COPS should NOT be carrying guns either since they do NOT train as heavily as some of you claim they do…and they do not keep any stringent training up after getting onto the force. They have to qualify from time to time but they do not have to get onto the range and practice every day, nor are they training heavily in any area that WE CCW types cannot do ourselves by taking a few classes from time to time.
      And yet we all know here that YOU will say that its ok for a COP to be armed in a theater like this.

      I suggest you actually RESEARCH the matter a bit more. There are dash cam videos of idiots in cop uniforms doing all sorts of stupid $$$$ all over youtube….things youd NEVER catch 99% of CCWer’s doing.

      I’ll keep my gun…you keep your philosophical fallacy…and when a gunman comes in shooting we’ll see who has the better chance of survival.

  30. avatarAlex Wasem says:

    We frequently visit the Cinemark theater in Mansfield, Tx, a few months ago I noticed a sign at the ticket counter that stated firearms were not allowed inside, even those being carried by Texas CHL holders. I asked to see a manager to clarify the policy, my wife and I were both carrying, apparently I was a bother to him and he rudely explained that Cinemark’s corporate policy does not allow firearms on their property. Not 100% clear on Texas law forbidding legal concealed carry without 30-06 or 51% sign, I explained we do not support businesses that are against guns and that we would not be back, he could have cared less.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      There is an indoor golf range here in town that was posted last year. I called them and talked to the manager and explained to him how those signs actually attract bad guys looking for easy money..and how they only really keep people like me from carrying inside…so that in the end they have the exact opposite effect than is intended by the business posting the signs.

      He was very polite and said he was considering the situation.
      The next day he called and told me that the sign was gone and to come on out.
      Some people actually end up ‘getting it’.

  31. avatarSanchanim says:

    Well first and foremost companies have a right to post policy, like Cinemark. Don’t get me wrong I would prefer to have CCW allowed in a Cinemark theater but it is their choice. We my choose to boycott their business which is fine. But in the end it is their choice. Businesses should have a right to control their own environments. We as gun owners might not like it, but it is their business not ours.

    This doesn’t diminish the tragedy that occurred.

    I do feel that if there had been CCW holders in the theater that the damage could have been minimized. To what degree I do not know, but given the law of averages, i.e. 10 people with guns against one guy, you would think someone would have had an open shot at some point. In this situation I could say had I been there, there might have had a good chance that I could have taken a shot. Then again maybe not, but having the option is better than covering your kids and praying.

    I won’t arm chair quarter back this to death, but suffice to say, that there are law abiding citizens out there with lots of good training who are CCW holders. Had at least one or two been there, it probably would have helped. Like many had said even if it didn’t kill him knowing you disabled him or distracted him to a point where innocent kids, and moms could have gotten out would have been enough for any of us.

  32. avatarjwm says:

    hmmmm, i do believe the business owner has the right to ban objects on his premises. just as i have the right to ban my wallet from his business. and we all know how rash and irresponsible ccw’res are, the papers are full of fender bender and cell phone gun fights related to ccw’ers. or they’re not, come to think of it. you sound like one of those panty wetting libs that use that extreme argument, if you let people have guns, what next, nukes.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      There will always be the few who make the whole look bad. Cops for example. Some of them are complete @@@ holes who abuse their authority to unbelievable extremes. I dont blame the 99% of good cops for the actions of the 1% who shouldnt be allowed to wear a badge.
      By the same token it isnt the 99% of CCW’ers fault that the system lets a few nutjobs slip through.
      We dont take ALL cops guns because 100 of them commit rape and murder and whatever else….that would be idiocy.
      Same applies to CC’ers.

  33. avatarWes says:

    I’m glad I live in the great State of TX. Gunbuster signs and simply “No Guns Allowed” signs are meaningless. Specific signage with specific wording in a specific size MUST be posted at EACH entrance for it to be a valid non-concealed carry zone. Otherwise, I’m carrying to my movie…Cinemark or not. And if they have TX PC 30.06 posted, then I take my business elsewhere.

  34. avatarJay W. says:

    Are there any statistics (Foghorn?) or studies showing the likelihood for a business to have a higher incidence of being robbed or a shooting(?), because the business has a no firearm policy?

  35. avatarKuper says:

    I hope someone if not all, sue the hell out of the theater for not allowing them to protect themselves. I could imagine that someone was thinking, “I’m glad my gun is in the car, could have used it right about now.” Instead I’m being shot in the back running away from some psycho. I’d rather have the option to at least protect myself with a weapon, than have to use harsh language and hope I don’t catch a stray bullet in the face.

    • avatarwilliam says:

      Exactly.
      Better to have a tool that might save your life and not need it than to need it and not have it.
      Car companies who refuse to put seat belts in a car should be held responsible.
      Business owners who refuse to let law abiding folk have a way to possibly defend themselves should be held accountable just the same.

  36. avatarjb says:

    I like cs gas. I was trained without a mask to fight (fire,return effective fire) in a gas filled area. Plus this freak was shooting at up to 200 + people in a confined area where they were only 15 20 feet away. I damn well know with the AR-15 he had: at least two to three people that were hit with one round. 5 rounds could of easily taken out 15 or more people. Also in a gas mask you CANNOT shoot accurately. I know, because I again was trained to fight in full chem suit, and you cannot align the sights correctly. You have to pointr and shoot. I also think everyone is right, just returning fire could of thrown him off track or a shot within 5 yards, I’m sorry but a head shot is totally viable. I guess some of you don’t train that much.

  37. avatarGoodToGo says:

    Monday Morning Quarterback

    Having some time to think, I am assessing what went down in Aurora. I think the vulnerabilities of the Perp are in order. He is in a darkened theater, he is wearing a gas mask. His peripheral vision is negligible. He has been shooting Sheeple like he is in a video game with no threat. The best way to have taken him out was circle around & with momentum attack him from behind. Wrap your arms around his legs, put your shoulder on his lower back & send him sprawling to the ground. Squat on top of his back, knees on his arms if possible, pull off his gas mask & gouge his eyes out. Once the sockets are gooie, then slip an arm under his neck & choke him out.
    I assume he is gunning Sheeple down with a rifle. With his limited vision, grab the rifle barrel & yank. Maybe you can get it away from him. Attack! Throw an elbow to the chin, knee to the groin. Leg sweep to take him down on his back. Sit on his chest, knees on arms if possible, pull down the gas mask & gouge his eyes out. If you got the rifle put the butt into the gut hard, turn it around & shoot him underneath the vest or chin. Call for assistance. The only ‘Fair Fight’ is the one you lose.

  38. avatarDr Karl Stalin says:

    There is a sign at the entrance of the Aurora theater that says, “NO FIREARMS”. Those with concealed carry permits did not bring their guns into the theater. Sure, that’s what we need, more gun control. Disarm the citizens and let the criminals slaughter them at will.
    —-WAKE UP AMERICA—–VOTE CONSERVATIVE 2012—

  39. avatarRedreed says:

    Why is it that these acts are almost always perpetrated by people who are well educated, are a current or recent student at a institute of higher education, or a student of a public institution? It seems to me that banning guns is not the answer. Banning education would seem to be the key.
    Or perhaps…educational institutions should encourage firearms training or education so that students would possibly learn to see firearms as something more than the tools of the disgruntled, or the insane. Our current education system appears to insuate, by their policies and apparent beliefs, that firearms are only used by crazy or antisocial people. As a result of their education, the crazy and antisocial feel compelled to comply.

  40. avatarGoodToGo says:

    FBI May 17 2012 Theater Attack Warning

    Pulled after Aurora shooting.

    http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/252061.html

  41. avatarTSgt S. Shoemaker says:

    A few thoughts:

    1. Add this to the growing list of “gun-free” zones that weren’t.
    4/2/12 college Oakland CA 7 dead 3 wounded
    10/18/10 post office Henning TN 2 dead
    2/12/10 university HuntSVille AL 3 dead 3 wounded
    2/14/08 university DeKalb IL 5 dead 16 wounded
    12/5/07 mall Omaha NE 8 dead 5 wounded
    9/21/07 university Dover DE 1 dead 1 wounded
    4/29/07 mall Kansas City MO 2 dead 2+ wounded
    4/16/07 university Blacksburg VA 32 dead 21+ wounded
    4/2/07 university Seattle WA 1 dead
    2/12/07 mall SLC UT 5 dead 4+ wounded
    9/29/06 school Cazenovia WI 1 dead
    9/27/06 school Bailey CO 1 dead
    8/25/06 school Essex VT 1 dead 1 wounded
    1/30/06 postal facility Goleta CA 7 dead
    11/20/05 mall Tacoma WA 1 wounded
    11/8/06 school Jacksboro TN 1 dead 2 wounded
    3/21/05 school Red Lake MN 7 dead 7 wounded
    4/14/03 school New Orleans LA 1 dead 4 wounded
    1/16/02 college Grundy VA 3 dead 3 wounded
    3/22/01 school EI Cajon CA 5 wounded
    3/6/01 school Santee CA 2 dead 13 wounded
    12/26/00 office Wakefield MA 7 dead
    11/2/99 office Honolulu HI 7 dead
    6/20/99 school Conyers GA 6 wounded
    4/20/99 school Columbine CO 13 dead 24 wounded
    5/21/98 school Springfield OR 2 dead 26 wounded
    12/1/97 school West Paducah KY 3 dead 5 wounded
    10/1/97 school Pearl MS 2 dead 7 wounded
    2/19/97 school Bethel AK 2 dead 2 wounded
    2/2/96 school Moses Lake WA 3 dead 1 wounded
    11/15/95 school LynnVille TN 2 dead 1 wounded
    12/14/92 college Great Barrington MA 2 dead 4 wounded
    6/1/92 school Olivehurst CA 4 dead 10 wounded
    11/1/91 university Iowa City IA 5 dead 1 wounded
    9/26/88 school Greenwood SC 2 dead 9 wounded
    5/20/88 school Winnetka IL 1 dead 5 wounded

    2. Please read this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/sheep.html

    3. On April 19, 1775, government forces set out to confiscate the firearms of free citizens. This sparked a sucessful revolution. Mr. President, Congress, Supreme court, please take note.

  42. avatarBrian says:

    Is this comic too soon? http://tinyurl.com/CinemarkGunBan

  43. avatarbrian says:

    This about sums it up:

    “If you asked, if he was still alive, he would have said his only
    regret is he didn’t have his sidearm with him and he couldn’t do
    anything to stop him.” –James Gill, on friend Jonathan Blunk,
    killed in the Aurora, CO Century movie theater shooting

  44. The reason nobody in the theater with a CCW had their weapon on them is because they are law-abiding citizens and know how to read signs. A cop once told me that those signs mean nothing. They are basically going against a states law concerning state issued CCW’s. He told me that even though he is a cop, when off duty he still carries his weapon in those places with the No Guns allowed signs. I have my CCW and carry it everywhere, Even those stupid liberal owned joints with the sign welcoming criminals to come on in because nobody is armed here, your safe to do what you want, Rape Rob and murder the patrons. I say Bullshit to those signs. Just think if only a couple of guys or gals had their weapons? Lives could have been saved.

  45. avatarDirk Diggler says:

    It is sad that they don’t even have a press release up expressing their concern for the victims. Bastards.

    http://www.cinemark.com/pressreleases.aspx

    • avatarAharon says:

      True. The lawyers are probably running the show and afraid literally anything will be used against them. Still, long term such bad unconcerned PR behavior might cost them a lot of money in people avoiding theaters, maybe.

  46. avatarDirk Diggler says:

    First lawsuit filed: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-holmes-lawsuit-shooting/

    BANKRUPT THE BASTARDS !!!!!

    • avatarAharon says:

      I have no problem with a lawsuit on principle yet it does seem like this one is opportunistic for money.

  47. avatarMike Ducharme says:

    The only way to make Cinemark do the right thing is to sue them. A company like Cinemark only cares about the bottom line and unfortunatley it’ll propably need a big lawsuit or change in the law to fix it. That’s how the law was changed in VA to allow concealed carry in Bars and Restaurants (crime dropped in these establishments BTW).

  48. avatarJoe Grine says:

    What has me all confused is that I simply cannot figure out how that dude could have gotten three guns into the theater, since Cinemark had a sign saying that guns are no allowed on the premises. Maybe the sign was not located in a sufficiently promenent location. I’m certain that adding a few more signs will prevent any future gun violence at Cinemark.

  49. avatarOther Derek says:

    You can as long as it’s justified. Lrn2 interpret the law.

  50. avatarWill says:

    I guaran-dang-tee you that there were a number of patrons in that theater who were packing heat, but when push came to shove, they ran like everyone else because that’s what instinct tells a person to do. Moreover, introducing more guns into that situation would likely have made matters WORSE–not better.

    . . . and, yes, I do have a CHL, and I do carry! But I’m also a criminologist and former cop; this is my bailiwick. Guns aren’t the answer. If more guns made people safer, there never would have been a WILD West!

  51. avatarGordon Freeman says:

    Well, I can’t say I care about a stupid no weapons policy, since that usually doesn’t stop criminals, or insane civilians. I CCW everywhere I go (except Gov. buildings), and after Aurora, I’m never walking into a theater without a loaded pistol at my side ever again. Already carried 3 times in my local Cinemark since I got my license. Call me paranoid, I call it PREPARED.

  52. avatarrobert kleman says:

    Hey guys, I have a crimson trace laser on my weapons and I fell everyone should just in case your in a low light condition and a A-Hole with orange hair comes in shooting at everyone, the Crimson will will put you right dead on target and game over, even dead on face shoots could be made if you know how to use your gun and your laser, this would of taken Orange hair out real fast.

  53. avatarrobert kleman says:

    Hey guys , the best thing to do is say the H___ with the stupid sign and carry anyway, just don’t tell anyone as I do. Who is going to know your carrying anyway, don’t make chicken salad out of chicken S___. You will be the one to walk out alive if Orange hair starts firing. But remember, if you ain’t got a Crimson trace on your carry gun, your making a big mistake, you don’t need the laser all the time for every situation, but in low light and very dark area’s, it will put direct fire on a target with pin point accuracy and deadly results, I carry a 1911 with 230 grain hollows, and let me tell ya, Orange hair wouldn’t stand a chance with the Crimson trace locked on his face and body receiveing the pounding of the 1911 and by the way, I always carry a back up clip. Remember the deal about a back up clip, It’s better to have it and not need it , then to need it and not have it, remember this please. The only place I don’t carry is in Federal buildings, but I carry in all the other places, I don’t worry about the no carry signs, remember, no one will know unless ya tell them, and why would ya want to do that, it don’t make any sence, stay safe and stay alive is all ya can do, because there are other people like Orange hair ot there and I hope I never run into them, but if I do and they start shooting, I know one person who will put them down ASAP, me and my 1911 equiped with a Crimson trace laser and back up clip. On one more note,I shoot targets weekly and and that keeps my blade sharp, I would highly recommend your shoot your carry gun often, maybe not as often as I do, but then again I shoot for fun and enjoyment with my friends. Please be safe. Bob USMC Retired.

  54. avatarCapt. John says:

    Those who “pooh-pooh” the straw-man or psyops argument (a shooter psycologically “primed” or drugged and sent on his “mission”) should remember that, throughout modern history, governments were the biggest killers of their own people-by far-compared to crime, disease, war, famine, etc., always in the pursuit of greater power at the expense of the liberty of the citizens. For us to believe that it couldn’t happen here is to keep our heads in the sand. We have a massive covert establishment; CIA, DIA, etc. etc., with a massive budget, including that used for research into various clandestine techniques. Relegating those who suspect covert involvement in these mass murders to the “tin foil hat” crowd is a good way to ensure that it keeps happening, if in fact it is. Note the recent push for more gun restrictions over the last year or so. Now, with the extremely anti-armed-citizen President no longer concerned with re-election, it is interesting-to say the least-that we have now endured the horror of Newtown, and the spate of seemingly unrelated but horrific shootings since Newtown-all of which involved either “assault” rifles or semi-automatic pistols. Surely you’ve all heard the military saying, “once is happenstance, twice is co-incidence, three times is enemy action.”

  55. avatarCapt. John says:

    I second Robt. Kleeman’s advice: practice as often as you can-you can never practice too much (as a certified instructor in Mass. I emphasize this with my students), and if you have time and resources, seek out more advanced training; it’s fun and rewarding. I routinely carry even where signs prohibit it (except in courthouses, police stations, etc. and anywhere there may be metal detectors). I don’t advocate that others break the law, but in most places, this only constitutes simple trespass, and you would be asked to leave if you were so foolish and careless as to be found out. Interestingly, Massachusetts-which makes it difficult to get a carry permit-has few restrictions on where one can carry once you get a permit. Only police stations, courthouses, and schools (except with permission of the administrator) are officially off limits. For some reason, one rarely sees “no guns” signs on private businesses.

    • avatarsteve lothamer says:

      So i guess you are not one of those law abiding citizens , the NRA is always talking about. Privetly owned bussiness do have the right to say no guns allowed.

  56. avatarTracy Wiswall says:

    Sadly our local theaters here in Memphis just went no guns after the school shooting. Brilliant…when all of the mad men are focusing their attacks on locations known to be gun free…lets make OUR theaters gun free. What could possibly go wrong???

  57. avatarsteve lothamer says:

    Some say they won’t patronize a buissinees that restricts they’re gun carrying rights. Some say they won’t give thier money to any bussiness that do the same. Did you all know, that the NRA, does not allow visiters to carry guns into thier HQ or any of thier office buildings. I guess NRA spells hypocrite.

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