There’s not much new in the world of the .308 AR-10 rifles these days. People seem generally happy with the design, they run reasonably well, and are more or less accurate. But LLARMS wants to take that 1950’s design and bring it into the 21st century, and to that end they’ve got this prototype…

A prototype that looks more like the famed BFG from Doom than any other gun I’ve ever seen, which of course means its awesome. But when I first saw the thing I had my doubts about the functionality of such a large barrel shroud. Turns out it does more than just look pretty.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is an active cooling system built right into the chassis. For those of you who have never tried to get a 3 round group at over 100 yards in Texas the active cooling system cools the barrel much faster, meaning quicker and more accurate follow-up shots can be made. That takes the cool down period from “let’s go grab a coffee” to something much more reasonable.

LLARMS is in the process of polishing off their prototype, and then I’ve been asked to participate in the beta test for these monsters. I’ll let you know how it handles once my FFL gets her hands on it — if I can pry it away from her long enough to shot it, that it.

48 Responses to Coming Soon: LLARMS .308 Gen II

  1. Yikes. Is that noise coming from the cooler? Won’t they need a silencer for the cooler? It sounds like my wife running the vacum cleaning the rug !

  2. The system is very quiet. No louder than a standard mini fan one might have on their desk as an example.

    I apologize, but our (obviously not so great at recording audio) camera is creating that crackly ambient noise you hear.

    Its deceiving because we didn’t actually cut in the video’s audio channel till we turned the system on, so it gives the impression our camera is recording in dead silence. Sadly its making that noise the whole time it records, so we cut out the audio until it was needed. 🙁

    – Damien

  3. That horrible static type noise you hear is actually our camera. Takes great 4000×3000 photos. Not so hot video and as you can hear… audio…

    🙁

    We have a GoPro HD Hero 2 coming in soon hopefully though.

    – Damien

    • Seriously, what’s up with the 1/2 second video transitions and the butt-rocker music? Was that video edited by a 16 year old virgin?

  4. My question is, why? Who’s going to buy this and why would they? Hunting? Assassin? Mall ninja?

  5. I have seen this thing in various forums, and the response has been weak at best. It is obvious that DJGIBB wrote this article as he has cut and pasted exactly from this article. His kids need college money yet he wastes it on this boat anchor. Shameful.

    • While we did try and bribe Nick with pictures of me in a G-String covered in whip cream, it didn’t work.

      Our predetermined statement was far more flattering; we are awesome, smart, handsome, financial gurus, etc. etc.

      We aggressively deny any of the horrible rumors going around that we kick puppies and punch babies though. Not cool.

  6. Wow, great video it really shows off the product. No I got that wrong, I meant to say awful video I couldn’t see a damn thing because of the crappy quick cuts. So it’s an air-cooled .308 that blows apart dirt, that’s very unimpressive. Is it at least piston driven? BTW I have seen better cooling systems in pc towers.

    It’s hard to take your product or your company seriously based on these two videos and the less than polished appearance of the firearm. It’s air cooled, so what? If your product isn’t accurate why bother sticking some 10mm pc case fans in the barrel shroud? If it is accurate why the hell not show it in the video, instead of blasting the dirt 50 feet in front of the rifle? This is my first introduction to LLArms, and it’s not impressive. It looks like something Will Hayden aborted on Sons of Guns. BTW I used to respect Will before he had his own show. Redstick arms was the place to go get your AK or Mac 10 worked on, now I wouldn’t send them my NAA derringer.

    • When we showed the generation 1 prototype, they laughed out how boxy it was.

      We said its a prototype, its evolving.

      When we showed the generation 2 prototype, they said it looked good, but what use was it?

      We said its a prototype, its evolving.

      When we showed the cooling system, they said we now had their attention, but why not show long range footage?

      And I suspect once we show the long range footage, they will say “Ok, it can shoot long range, but can it change the oil in my car?”

      The moral of the story is we will never offer anything in a timely fashion for some people. We stopped trying some time ago when it became clear some people are just determined to dislike something at any given moment at any given whim.

      Even me posting here (which most companies will not do in articles) will be pointed out by someone sooner or later to be a negative.

      Here is an interesting fact: A ton of people got to shoot it at the range when we were testing various things. Lots of questions. Lots of inquiries. Etc. Etc.

      Not one person said anything negative unless in a respectful manner. For example “Cool idea, but its just not for me.”

      Now in comparison about 80% of the comments on the internet people just say what comes to mind and often times its a bunch of vulgarities, insults, and a new one at this point is (as you can see) telling bloggers to post pre-defined scripts.

      Welcome to the life of any company making something that isn’t “normal”.

      • I don’t dislike your product because of the original thinking or new concept. I dislike the product because of the poor job of marketing that is being displayed. I can’t tell what the product is or what it does from the video. We are your potential who you are trying to get interested in your product. We aren’t at the range to verify the gun’s minimal muzzle rise, quite fans or recoil, we are on the internet and you have given us two videos, one with seizure inducing transitions and another with “bad” sound. . So far from the few pictures and minimal description of the platform it looks ill-conceived, heavy and ineffective.
        May be instead of replying to internet critics with equally snarky replies why don’t you release some useful information about your product like weight, length, cooling times, or accuracy? Otherwise all I see is a red push button on top of some square alumnium housing with a couple of under powered pc fans and a D-cell battery.

        • (Sorry for the duplicate hit new message instead of reply)

          Sadly I think we both realize this is not a conversation where I change your mind on anything. I cannot offer you what is not complete yet.

          This is why Mr. Leghorn is among a handful of selected entities were offered an invitation to to put it through its paces once its complete. By Q4 of this year you’ll have plenty of info and media to go through as people like Nick either tell the world how awesome it is, or how utterly crappy it is.

          While far be it from me to call into question your marketing background, I’ll ask you reserve judgement till after the units are sitting in the hands of the worlds most powerful marketers the bloggers.

      • LLARMS: Even me posting here (which most companies will not do in articles) will be pointed out by someone sooner or later to be a negative.

        For what it’s worth, I’ve never seen a manufacturer representative get static for posting here. In every case I can recall, I’ve seen it regarded as a positive.

        I’m just not a fan of the first video because the staticy, rolling screen effect is super distracting. It’s only on second or third viewing that it all “comes together.” At the WordPress blog sizing, the YouTube video is only 5″ across on my screen, which makes the small red vibrating “edgy” text nearly impossible to read. It probably looks a lot better on a 46″ screen behind your booth at SHOT Show. The video doesn’t provide any substantive information, it’s just designed to be a hook, so it needs to hook, which for me it didn’t do. I didn’t care enough to start it over and blow it up to see what it said when I first watched it. The “second or third viewing” I spoke of above was only done in preparation for this comment.

        The second video is unfortunate due to the camera issues, but I’d be interested to see it again in the next version, with a quieter camera.

        • Sorry about that, the videos were made with a standard 720p resolution in mind.

          One thing we gladly admit is our lack of experience in creating videos. We did what we thought was fun. None of these are intended as production finished demonstrations – just a few tidbits thrown here and there.

          I think people get the wrong impression that we are, or have intentions to be a large manufacturer of products. All our products are custom made to order. We don’t have a designated “PR” person or Adobe AE guru in-house. We don’t have a warehouse with overstock. Our QA allows each order to be put together by hand and never sit on a shelf waiting to be purchased.

          We provide what info we can, when we can, with the time we have, and the people we have. On top of all this I have my own 9-5 job like everyone else (well hopefully I can retire given enough time and success) – so sometimes its a simply a matter of myself not having enough time to put together something for the “me me me now now now” crowd.

        • LLArms: I think it’s great that you are posting. Irock350 and Matt in FL are giving you guys some valuable feedback regarding your marketing video. But please don’t be so defensive. Sure, you are correct that people tend to be a bit more snarky on the internet than they would be if they were looking you in the face. But thats just a 21st century reality, so you just are gonna have to have some of that “on the chin” so to speak.

          Now, granted, my earlier comment was perhaps too snarky as well, but there is a lot of honest feedback contained therein. As irock350 articulated, the rapid transitions every 1/2 or so made the video seem like a Quentin Tarantino movie. That’s not good if you want the viewer to actually be able to see the product. Second, the heavy metal music is probably only a good thing if your target audience is a teenager who plays Call of Duty. But as far as I know, they don’t typically have the kind of disposable income to be your intended customer base. I’m in my 40’s, and although I grew up listening to Ozzy and Iron Maiden, I grew out of it for the most part. And since I own a couple hundred guns and have some disposable income (sadly, much less than I used to, because of the obama-conomy), I’m probably your target audience. So slow the video down, show some hi-tech slow-motion action shots and some test targets, have some ex-super trooper Navy SEAL type say something nice about it, and play some music that has a wider audience (no dubstep!). If you simply have to play heavy metal, at least play something that us older guys will remember, like some old school Metallica or Motorhead. Bonus points if you can work some of Jesus and Mary Chain’s heavier stuff in there. Good Luck!

  7. Sadly I think we both realize this is not a conversation where I change your mind on anything. I cannot offer you what is not complete yet.

    This is why Mr. Leghorn is among a handful of selected entities were offered an invitation to to put it through its paces once its complete. By Q4 of this year you’ll have plenty of info and media to go through as people like Nick either tell the world how awesome it is, or how utterly crappy it is.

    While far be it from me to call into question your marketing background, I’ll ask you reserve judgement till after the units are sitting in the hands of the worlds most powerful marketers the bloggers.

  8. The first video was annoying. after watching it i had learned absolutely NOTHING. Adding insult to injury, the first ~35 seconds was essentially dead space.

  9. So what exactly does this system do? How much does it weigh? What else is installed on the chasis? How long does it take to reduce the heat? Can you answer any other questions now?

    • 1. Our in-house unit with a 27″ bull barrel weighs 29.5 lbs with no magazine or gear. About on par with a Barrett .50 rifle. Its made for prone, bench, or support shooting.

      2. You can install whatever you’d like. The slits in the chassis service a secondary role of allowing picatinny rail placement in any fashion you want and for whatever reason you want.

      3. A single 40mm fan pushing 16CFM directly downthe inside of a barrel can take the average ambient heat after 3-5 shots down to “ready to shoot” temperatures in a few minutes. Normally depending on atmosphere variables letting a rifle “sit” to cool off can take upwards of 15+ minutes.

      Our system attacks the heat from the outside, so we are pushing 150CFM.

      The system can be toggled on and left running for longer strings of shots (ie; a whole magazine) and while the benefits are not as great as using it for “spot cooling”, your barrel can only benefit from heat removal for both accuracy and barrel life.

      Our level 2 system will be an ‘add-on’ component for the level 1 system. All I am willing to say is that we are testing something that ‘injects’ a very cold element into the wind stream and quickens the level 1 cooling capability many times greater.

      The main feature of this type of system is it is simply integrated into the chassis. No extra doo-dads to lug to the range (or forget to bring). No tubes or wires to mess with once you setup. Its there, its concealed, its ready to go at the flip of a switch. The switch itself will be placed on the lower part of the shroud near the mag well, so a simple hand motion and its up and running.

      As Mr. Leghorn pointed out, this application is targeted towards those who would like more trigger time and less waiting time for the barrel to cool naturally.

      Hope this gives you some info you were looking for.

      • Thanks, this Is what should be In the red lettering in the video. Useful information for the target consumer. I like the idea of active cooling, but I naturally the proof will be in the pudding so to say. Last queation, as the product evolves will the system get lighter?

        • Not likely.

          Of the other ‘features’ is the added weight acts as a compensator to assist in keeping the barrel in the same position before the shot and after the shot.

          If you do a Wiki or Google search on “Bench Rest Rail Gun” and read over that concept, our system is somewhat of a hybrid of this concept.

  10. Nattering Nabobs of Negativism…….
    Sheesh….Bringing Innovative products to market….not an easy thing to do…
    The stated purpose was to provide a product and innovation for especially those
    who are interested in making accurate shots with a quick turnaround time between shots…sounds like a great idea to me…any prototype and new product – the focus is on the product development probably not necessarily the presentation…at least you are getting a teaser idea of what they are developing instead of having to wait till completion and production before getting a fancy marketing video..
    Kudos and a job well done to have the courage to enlighten the public of your intended innovation…..the fact that you are willing to take criticism now is a sign of your integrity and belief in your ideas….Keep going……

    • We told Mr. Leghorn (and the others) that they are free to blog about the weapon in its entirety. We made it very clear if they found it to be a useless piece of junk to let us know that. In the real world its better to cut the losses early then hold out and waste more money.

      On the flip side if they find it a very nice ‘addition’ to the weapons cache to let people know too. Our system is not meant to replace anything on the market. Its not a solution looking for a problem. It was an idea we failed to see anyone else on the market looking into and figured we would give it a shot. Its not just a weapon, its a piece of art (eye of the beholder and all). We made it very clear to the testers if they were looking for the next battlefield capable weapon they would be extremely let down.

      We could have marketed this as ‘tactical’ – perhaps a few zombie stickers for good measure. Someone somewhere even suggested we put a female with large boobs next to it.

      We decided however we would rather it sink or swim on its own merits without having to rely on gimmicks, breast, or the zombie fad.

  11. To step back from the drama for a moment. I offer this: I am interested but as others have said your promotional video misses the target. I might like to purchase one should it become a product and not vaporware. But I need something like a 5 minute History or Military channel program that can demonstrate the product. The video makes too many cuts. The music is a matter of taste.

  12. Interesting, but I’d like to make a couple of points:

    AR-10 is the trademark of Armalite Inc. Armalite makes AR-10 rifles, the others are AR-10 “type” rifles.

    We routinely get 1.5 MOA or better with our plain vanilla AR-10A4BF, and our AR-10NMFA will shoot sub-MOA all day.

    AR-10B rifles use a modified M-14 magazine, but Armalite recently released the AR-10A rifles which use the same mag as everyone else (PMAGs!).

    I bought the 10A4BF for my son, and it put my HK-91 to shame! So I sold the dumb thing and got the 10NMFA, and I’m happy as I can be with it. If anything happened to it I’d buy another.

    Charlie

    • Thank you!
      Call me a snob but I get so picky when someone wants to call a DPMS or any semi-auto .308 an AR-1o. An AR-10 is an Armalite and they are very very specific about making sure you know that (its in red font at the bottom of customer reply emails) “AR STANDS FOR ARMALITE!” in bright red. Sorry for the rant, it just chaps my nips when a read up on a product that says its for DPMS AR-10’s only. Wait, whats it for?

      • I personally refer to non Armalite rifles as “AR-10 Style” or “AR-10 Platform”.

        But it doesn’t really bother me when somene says “AR-10” because I know the point of what they are saying is .308 rifle.

        Kind of like how AR-15 is commonly (almost exclusively really) used.

      • +1. There’s Armalite, and there’s everybody else. I wouldn’t trade my AR-10 for a sack of “AR-10 style” rifles.

        Charlie

        • I run DPMS .308’s pretty much exclusively and besides out the box gas adjustments I’ve never had any trouble out of mine. One of my LR-308’s has had a few thousand rounds put through it and its still running like a top.

          Every company has bad batches from time to time, even the pricey guys. Just my opinion, of course.

  13. Wow, LLARMS managed to spam TTAG.
    The owner is on a spam campaign to convince the internet his almost 20 lbs handguard is some sort of magical benefit. A poor idea that no one is impressed by or interested in.
    That stated, it doesn’t stop him from spamming it all over the place and community sourcing annoying the hell out of everyone on forums.
    Shame on TTAG for giving this guy any air play.

    • i too have seen the word spreading and you are just another over exaggerating idiot who is probably pissed he is and will always be a nobody. how awesome is it you keep referring to llarms as spamming, how else does a company spread the word, through telepathic powers? keep crying about it seems like every troll that comes their way they get more forward momentum.

      shame on ttag for letting you comment

      • Butthurt much? This idea has to be the dumbest and replying under different names belittling a gun buyer doesn’t help your cause at all.
        I hope you spend all the money you can on this prototype. I suspect it will be a great dust collector.

        • you are just butt hurt you got called what you deserve a big fat idiot troll. boohoo life sucks and you have to take it out on everyone else cause daddy didnt giv you enough hugs as a child. people like you will never amount to anything and anyone else be damned because they can boohoo life sux

  14. I like the design, it’s what makes it unique. I would like to see one in person to truly appreciate the rifle or voice my opinion on it.

    The one thing that does bother me in Leghorns’ writings. As I know he has written about ArmaLite before and has been corrected about the miss use before too.

    His blatant disregard as a so called journalist, his lack of research, and false labeling are just down right pathetic.

    • I know I’ll get called a butt-kiss or something worse, but that came off a bit harsh.

      “.308 AR-10 Rifles” is the term he used.

      Whats the big deal?

  15. If the term AR-10 is to be the exclusive domain of Armalite then what will we call AR-10s to please everyone?

    • I’ve always wondered what the stigma with the “AR-10” is.

      “AR-15” is used far more often than “AR-10” is and I never see people becoming upset when “AR-15” is used. I’d venture to say its a 1 to 100 ratio in comparison to the two platforms and what some people feel are incorrect terminology.

  16. I hardly comment, but i did a few searching and
    wound up here Coming Soon: LLARMS .308 Gen II | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns. And I do have 2 questions for you if you usually do not mind. Could it be just me or does it seem like some of these responses appear like they are coming from brain dead people? 😛 And, if you are posting on additional social sites, I would like to follow anything fresh you have to post. Would you list of all of your communal pages like your twitter feed, Facebook page or linkedin profile?

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