The Bay Area seems to be having its fair share of idiots who’ve decided they want to take on the local po po. This latest incident seems additionally disturbing as the yoot involved was only 15 years old. When he and his buddy were asked to stop by an officer on Tuesday, his partner in crime did the right thing and complied. When all was said and done, he was questioned and released. Unfortunately, Derrick Gaines decided running was the better option . . .

A short foot chase ensued and Gaines allegedly pulled out a gun, after which he was shot by the officer in the parking lot of the Arco gas station, next to the McDonald’s.

He died later at the hospital.

“One complied with the officer and the other did not,” (South San Francisco police Capt. Mike) Brosnan said.

I couldn’t care less at this point what ass backward laws California has on the books. Under no circumstance could a 15-year-old legally posses a firearm in any state. Much less have a CCW or, even with constitutional carry, be allowed to have one in his possession.

So how did this kid get his heater? Where did it come from? Was it stolen? Did it come from out of state? We may never know and the gun-grabbers, I am sure, will lock onto this one as a poster child to disarm us all. I am sure the police department will use this as a point to play up the growing gun problem in their city. This is a stupidity problem not a gun problem so get over it.

I fail to understand why people find the need to disobey our LEO’s, run and threaten them with a firearm. I am sorry you run away, then fumble around in your pockets for what ever and don’t listen to them there’s a pretty good chance you are going to get shot. Any third grader could probably deduce that one.

The ACLU will likely attempt to make this a race issue and the family attorney will say no shots were fired, and ask why was the kid was shot. It would be nice to see the judges throw this stuff out of court rather than tie up our LEOs’ time, but I won’t hold my breath.

The police are out there to protect us, or at least try to. If you try and pull a gun you will most likely die. That is such a simple statement and yet too many people fail to understand this simple logic. They don’t need to wait for you to fire a shot, or even aim the gun at you.

We have seen dash cams that show what happens when LEOs get stuck trying to negotiate. I would expect no less if I were a LEO and I’m sure you wouldn’t either. Also, kudos to the LEO for only needing one shot. I know that sounds bad but in a defensive gun use in a busy area, a single shot on target is what you want. No innocent bystanders were injured.

The only person to blame in this instance is the kid. He did exactly what you shouldn’t do. Let that be a lesson to his buddies.

Recommended For You

65 Responses to Self Defense Tip: Don’t Draw on a Cop

  1. Yup, that about sums it up. I live on the Berkeley/Oakland border, and this stuff happens ALL the time. And usually there is a brief public outcry from all of the Berkeley hippies (“POLICE SUMMARILY EXECUTE CHILD FOR BEING BLACK”), and then the facts come out, and they all shut the hell up until the next time some asshat draws on the cops and gets ventilated. At which point they are back to creating flower and teddy bear memorials and organizing protests. I have no idea why you would want to be a cop in Oakland.

    http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2011/07/fatal-shot-bayviews-officer-involved-shooting-called-self-inflicted

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/07/BA0C1OEPG1.DTL

  2. Self Defense Tip: Don’t Draw on a Cop

    No sh!t. Seriously though, this kinda ties into a argument going on a couple post down. People losing thier damn minds in the presents of a cop, then acting surprised when something bad happens. Stupidity has a price people. This guy paid it and the tasered woman did too.

        • Because there are so many TV shows or movies where the cops/FBI/CSI/etc and their opponents are pointing guns at each other, fingers on the triggers, engaged in a debate or some other similar, unlikely scenario.

      • “Under no circumstance could a 15-year-old legally posses a firearm in any state.” Don’t mean to nitpik… but ever hear of “Hunting”… I know of alot of kids 15 and younger that go hunting LEGALLY, I first took my kids when they were six… by 12 they were hunting from their own stand with me a safe distance away hunting my own stand.

        • Actually pre edits I did mention that.
          I fully believe when kids are with adults, in hunting or range situations that is fine, and in fact I support it highly.
          I believe under the law the adult is still the owner of the said firearm but the kid is essentially borrowing it under supervision.

        • The post is about a kid with a handgun. Your nitpicking of the author’s words are not constructive.

  3. So which angle will be taken?
    Cops should not have stopped them?
    Cop should not pursue running person?
    Company that made the gun is at fault? Store where sold? Previous owner?
    Or just float the idea that if they destroy everyone’s guns we can’t have a problem?

    • A sharp lawyer will say it was the manufacturer of the liquor and cigarettes that the kid’s mother drank and smoked at the bar when she was pregnant with him, causing him to be born with too low an IQ to understand that pulling a gun on a police officer might be a bad idea. Add in the paint manufacturer of the house that the mother lived in that contains lead, and further contributed to the early death by stupidity of her son.

  4. Yup another shooting last night in Oakland. I seriously wonder what the hell is going on. It isn’t like the local po po has gone crazy, I would say that vast majority are clean shoots.
    I don’t know if things are getting better or worse. Although I would say you know it is bad when the Oakland police chief starts using statistics of the month instead of yearly totals to say violent crime is down. It makes me think they are trying to present numbers so that the public feels better.
    As predicted the families involved in the event are in an uproar. I don’t think much will come of it though.

  5. Okay, let’s parse this a little.

    “Derrick Gaines, a student at Foxridge Community Day School, and another teen were acting suspicious”

    Which means they were walking while black, which certainly gives rise to a reasonable suspicion and a resulting Terry stop in many places.

    “Gaines took off running”

    I’m guessing he took off a-runnin’ because he was carrying a gun.

    “A short foot chase ensued and Gaines allegedly pulled out a gun”

    Usually, it’s a comb or a PDA, which wouldn’t have mattered because

    “the officer ‘feared for his life'”

    That’s usually the rationale for the po-po popping Fido. Fortunately, no dogs were injured in the making of this farce.

    • He was carrying a gun with a cop in the area. My guess is he was acting suspiciously. The second the cop approached him, he ran. I’ve been approached by the police before and it really is annoying but you know what I don’t do? I don’t run. And here’s a nice thought experiment for black people. Dress and act white for a month and see if they the profiling goes down. They dress and act like thugs because it gives them street cred but then get all offended when the authorities treat them like thugs. Wear brooks brothers khakis and polos that actually fit and the cops will leave you alone.

      • Carleton?

        I actually proposed a similar thought experiment to a “diversity consultant” who explained that her thugged-out son was always getting hassled by the po-po because of his skin color. I asked her what would happen to me if I was out with a shaved head, white t-shirt, red suspenders, skintight black jeans (this was pre-skinny jean hipster fab) and 14-hole red doc martins? Do you think the cops might hassle me then?

        • Nah. In the history of this country, the cops have never pulled over, stopped on the street, frisked, or arrested a white person. There are 0 white people in jail and every time a minority gets arrested it’s because of evil white racism. If we go into black neighborhoods and arrest criminals, we’re racists but if we don’t go into black neighborhoods and the crime rates go up, we’re racists who don’t care. It’s a nice catch-22.

    • Hi Ralph, yes it is great no innocent pooches were harmed in this incident.
      Apparently the persons were known to police. This means for what ever reason they had been detained, delivered home, or had some other run in’s with the local po po…
      In this instance there is no doubt including testimony from his friend that he was in fact packing heat. A gun was apparently recovered from the scene, and so the statements that “they didn’t have to shoot him” become irrelevant. The fact that the police department hasn’t had an officer related shooting in 30 years should tell you something. Now people are saying they have lost the trust in their police force? I could understand this coming from Oakland which might be taken over by the federal government, but that is another story.
      One question I think should be put out there is why in the world a 15 year old feels he needs to commit a felony by carrying? I understand most of us adults have our reasons, but a 15 year old? Has our society really gotten to this point?
      I have lived in the Bay Area all my life and South San Francisco is where my father taught school for many years. I never thought of it as a hot bed for gang or violence or much crime. Oakland kind has the reputation on that. It seems like more and more people are saying forget about the law I am going to protect myself. This is one of the more extreme cases. I am sure there are many law abiding citizens in this state quietly packing because the laws are just flawed and they don’t feel they have any recourse.

      • “One question I think should be put out there is why in the world a 15 year old feels he needs to commit a felony by carrying?”
        If you’re carrying stuff people want to steal from you then you also carry a piece. And I don’t mean Skittles.

        • Oh no wait I carry iced tea, dang it I knew there was a reason they were following me!

      • Rational boy is an oxymoron unless you qualify it with sporadically. The only solution is to outlaw boys on the street. They belong in cages or chained to school desks or church pews.

  6. “He was smart, chill and positive. There was nothing wrong with him,” one of the friends said. They could not answer why Gaines may have been carrying a gun, however.

    Here we go again… he was such a good person, everyone liked him blablabla

  7. “The only person to blamein this instance is the kid. He did exactly what you shouldn’t do. Let that be a lesson to his buddies.”

    There are others to blame, the parent/s that should have taught this punk that this type of action has consequences…..

    • Uhm.. Darwinism??
      I don’t know the kids background I haven’t read his biography, and to be honest in the end it doesn’t matter.
      An LEO stops you for what ever reason.
      Usually if you are calm and collected life moves on. In this case he wasn’t and well there ya go.
      Yes there are bad cops, but pulling a gun, resisting, or threatening usually doesn’t help your cause. Sure you can blame lots of people, but in the end he is responsible for his own actions period.

  8. In 99% of police shootings (of humans) I tend to come down on the side of the LEO (oddly in police shootings of dogs, 99% of the time I come down on the side of the dog). This case is no exception. Cops take on a lot of responsibility, they really do risk their lives every time they put on a uniform. Somehow there is an element of society that thinks among the responsibilities of a LEO is to let the bad guy take the first shot. If you draw a weapon on a police officer odds are you are going to get shot, odds are pretty good that you deserved it. I think that’s the case here.

    I feel for the cop. Nothing prepares you for taking another human being’s life, much less a young man’s.

    • Cops take on a lot of responsibility

      I disagree. Only people who accept that they will be held accountable for their actions take on a lot of responsibility.

      • I totally agree. Lawyers are much more moral and responsible than police (note sarcasm).

        Are you still upset about the pregnant woman being tasered, and carrying that anger over into what appears to be a legitimate shooting?

        • Neither. I just know too many cops who were professional hit men, too many cops who falsified evidence and beat the living shit out of defendants to get phony confessions, stole fortunes, took bribes, sold drugs — do you want me to go on, because I can thoroughly document every claim. But I think you know that.

        • Oh Officer wana-be SWAT “sniper”, if police are so moral and responsible, why do they need legal immunity? Or did I hurt you feelings just like 240 rounds of 308 hurt you over a 3 day period?

        • In support of Ralph, go look up Jon Burge of Chicago who tortured over 200 suspects, or the semi-recent Special Operations Section scandal which exposed a massive crime ring within the CPD. It only came to light when one cop tried to murder another cop. Go back to your fantasy that cops actually make us safer, rather than act as the revenue generating arm of the politicians.

        • BTW, Jon Burge is the reason our Governor gave clemency to all death row inmates, pardoned a handful of death row inmates, and abolished the death penalty here in Illinois.

        • @Matt

          Yes, I went to a regional Swat Sniper School. It isn’t the same standard as the Marine Corps school, but opportunities are opportunities.

          No, you are not able to offend me – I’m pretty well able to keep my cool, thanks.

          @Ralph

          So you’ve seen dirty cops. I’ve seen dirty lawyers. Saying that all cops are dirty underlines your own prejudice. I would expect more from an educated and prolific TTAG commenter, but it’s not the first time I’ve been let down by a lawyer.

          On a more positive note, I do not automatically assume all lawyers are amoral based upon the actions of a few dozen DUI defense attorneys. It’s certainly your right to opine that all LEO’s lack the ability to assume personal responsibility, but it does speak to your inability to be reasonable.

        • lol, in a previous article you did say that I offended you when I called you a welfare queen. Working in IT, if I want to take a class, almost always I have to pay for it out of pocket. Have you continued to build your skill set by taking additional classes at your own expense? How often do you go to the range and practice at a distance of than 500 yards or more? Shooting at 100 yards with a bolt gun with a huge piece of glass doesnt really count, you dont have to do much in regards to wind or bullet drop. If you dont then it is kind of hard to call yourself a “sniper”.

        • All cops are dirty, they are more than willing to meet ticket quotas. Calling them performance metrics or whatever other term doesnt change what they’re doing.

          “It’s certainly your right to opine that all LEO’s lack the ability to assume personal responsibility”
          If they are willing to assume personal responsibility, then why do they need legal immunity?

          And would you care to elaborate on how those couple dozen DUI attorneys are amoral?

    • The number 1 cause of police on the job deaths are traffic accidents, not being shot. And there are plenty of other dangerous professions such as cell phone tower climbers, oil rig workers, miners, construction workers, etc. Even as a IT tech I was almost electrocuted by a live flyback transformer while wearing a grounding strap, which would have proved lethal. And i’ve been injured on the job a couple of times, and at the rate my carpal tunnel is going I’ll be disabled when im in my 40s. LEOs need to man up and realize that most professions are inherently dangerous, even if you spend all day in a office.

      • Matt:
        “if police are so moral and responsible, why do they need legal immunity?”

        Probably the same reason people on here support SYG laws. Shooting someone is very messy legaly and it’s just stupid to not cover you ass six ways from Sunday no matter who you are. I’m sure Ralph being a lawyer and all will back me up. Or not.

        Ralph
        “Only people who accept that they will be held accountable for their actions take on a lot of responsibility.”

        That’s damn near exactly the same argument I heard recently against SYG laws. The hypocrisy on this site recently is amazing.

        • SYG laws do apply to cops. Their qualified immunity is for virtually everything. They should have no more immunity than anyone else does.

        • Not SYG specificly to cops, but legal immunity of some kind in general. Everyone wants it. Also read the story about the tasered pregnant woman. She broke the law, then broke another law, than resisted arrest and tried to leave the scene. When she ends up getting tasered, like she should have, she plays the victim role. Garantee she tries to sue, and will probably win. With crap like that, departments have to cover their ass anyway they can. Ralph and a lot of other people threw their support behind the woman, than b!tch and complain about all the protection cops get, when it’s a direct result of the thing they supported. Again, hypocrisy on an epic scale.

  9. Why did Trayvon Martin try to administer a beat down (supposedly) on Zimmerman? Maybe it’s a power trip, ‘I did it because I could’, or something along that line. Maybe he thought he was ‘lucky’. Maybe Dirty Harry had it right, “Do I feel lucky, well, do ya punk?”.

  10. In california you hardly hear the race card…

    “I couldn’t care less at this point what ass backward laws California has on the books. Under no circumstance could a 15-year-old legally posses a firearm in any state. Much less have a CCW or, even with constitutional carry, be allowed to have one in his possession.
    So how did this kid get his heater? Where did it come from? Was it stolen? Did it come from out of state? We may never know and the gun-grabbers, I am sure, will lock onto this one as a poster child to disarm us all. I am sure the police department will use this as a point to play up the growing gun problem in their city. This is a stupidity problem not a gun problem so get over it.”

    Thats going to be more or less what happens… This state sucks. I offered up finger prints, background checks, FBI FOIR, serial numbers, whatever to LTC(call it what it is.. A License to Carry) “Heres my name, heres where I work, heres where you can find me, heres my life… ” “Nope sorry sir you gonna have to be a victim if something happens”

  11. “We have seen dash cams that show what happens when LEOs get stuck trying to negotiate”
    That is the exception rather than the rule, and there are a handful of those videos. Just wondering but what is your profession? I’m guessing the author of this post is a LEO. And why shouldn’t we draw on a cop? If they are acting in a threatening and aggressive manner, you should have every right to draw and fire on them, just as you would with anyone else in state that has stand your ground or castle doctrine laws. The Indiana legislature just passed a law to further clarify this issue, and made it 100% legal to shoot a cop if he tries to enter your home without a warrant.

    • “The Indiana legislature just passed a law to further clarify this issue, and made it 100% legal to shoot a cop if he tries to enter your home without a warrant.”

      False. I hope that you a) don’t live in Indiana and b) don’t really interpret the law like you said above.

        • History
          2012-03-20 – Signed by the Governor
          2012-03-14 – Signed by the President of the Senate
          2012-03-13 – Signed by the Speaker
          2012-03-13 – Signed by the President Pro Tempore
          2012-03-09 – Conference committee report 1 : adopted by the House; Roll Call 414: yeas 67, nays 26
          2012-03-09 – Rules suspended
          2012-03-09 – Conference committee report 1 : adopted by the Senate; Roll Call 359: yeas 38, nays 12
          2012-03-09 – Senate Rule 86(a) suspended
          2012-03-09 – Conference committee report 1 : filed in the House
          2012-03-09 – Representative Steuerwald added as conferee
          2012-03-09 – Representative Steuerwald removed as House advisor
          2012-03-09 – Representative L. Lawson removed as conferee
          2012-03-09 – Senator Delph added as conferee
          2012-03-09 – Senator Delph removed as advisor
          2012-03-09 – Senator Taylor removed as conferee
          2012-03-09 – Senator Taylor added as conferee
          2012-03-09 – Senator Lanane removed as coauthor
          2012-03-09 – Senator Lanane removed as conferee
          2012-03-09 – Senate advisors appointed: Delph, Hume and Steele
          2012-03-09 – Senate conferees appointed: M. Young and Lanane
          2012-03-08 – Senator Becker removed as coauthor
          2012-03-07 – Senator Wyss removed as coauthor
          2012-03-05 – House advisors appointed: Steuerwald, Torr and Dvorak
          2012-03-05 – House conferees appointed: McMillin and L. Lawson
          2012-03-05 – Senate dissented from House amendments
          2012-03-01 – Returned to the Senate with amendments
          2012-03-01 – Third reading: passed; Roll Call 312: yeas 74, nays 24
          2012-02-28 – Amendment 1 (DeLaney), withdrawn
          2012-02-28 – Amendment 2 (McMillin), prevailed; voice vote
          2012-02-28 – Second reading: amended, ordered engrossed
          2012-02-23 – Committee report: amend do pass, adopted
          2012-01-31 – First reading: referred to Committee on Courts and Criminal Code
          2012-01-23 – Senators Zakas and Bray added as coauthors
          2012-01-23 – Representative Speedy added as cosponsor
          2012-01-23 – Cosponsor: Rep. Turner
          2012-01-23 – House sponsor: Rep. McMillin
          2012-01-23 – Referred to the House
          2012-01-23 – Third reading: passed; Roll Call 35: yeas 45 and nays 5
          2012-01-19 – Second reading: ordered engrossed
          2012-01-17 – Senators Lanane, Hume and Rogers added as coauthors
          2012-01-17 – Committee report: amend do pass, adopted
          2012-01-05 – Senators Alting, Banks, Becker, Boots, Buck, Delph, Eckerty, Gard, Glick, Grooms, Head, Hershman, Holdman, Kruse, Landske, Lawson, Leising, Long, Merritt, Miller, Mishler, Nugent, Paul, Schneider, Simpson, Smith, Tomes, Walker, Waltz, Waterman, Wyss and Yoder added as coauthors
          2012-01-04 – First reading: referred to Committee on Corrections, Criminal, and Civil Matters
          2012-01-04 – Authored by Senators M. Young, Charbonneau and Steele

    • Ok that is a rare minority I would think, but agreed you have a right to defend yourself. I wonder if that would work with a no knock warrant??

      To that end my profession is a Sr. IT Consultant. I also served in the IDF for four years after I had an honorable medical discharge, injured my knee.

  12. Ralph, cops up north must really suck. Never heard of such in the Lone Star state. And folks please, for your sake, rethink any propensity to draw on a cop. It really could contribute to your longevity.

  13. Watching a video is exactly the same as being part of the situation for sure. Walk a mile in my shoes…but most folks don’t have the testecular fortitude to do that.

    Searching for isolated incidents isn’t difficult. It would probably take a lifetime to search for all the times when the po po do the right thing. There are idiots in any profession…as in life in general. Big brushes cover more than they should.

    • If your anywhere around Chicago, I’d love to do a ride along and point out how you violate peoples rights on a daily basis.

      • Its late, I remembered after posting that you were in TX, if you got any buddies up here around Chicago, i’ll ride along with them and tape incidents such as lack of probable cause. If cops knew the law, they would be prosecutors, wouldnt need Frasier vs Cupp, or legal immunity.

      • How about this, why dont you post some 8 hours of continuous dash cam video with audio from one of your shifts on youtube and let me go thru it?

    • And how you’ve changed your tune from “Never heard of such in the Lone Star state.” If your a cop, how the hell have you never heard of police brutality cases? Do you keep your head in the sand, not watch the news, or gossip with your fellow officers?

    • And if there is one thing in common with all those videos, all those officers made mistakes, are you saying you’ve never made a mistake in your career? You’re some how a perfect little angel, complete with a halo?

      • Relax a little. Go back to your “dangerous cubicle,” and risk carpel tunnel.

        Yes, police brutality happens. Yes, there are good cops out there.

        Sounds like Joseph isn’t responding because you sound like a whining kid.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *