“The number of Chicagoans murdered since 2001 is two and a half times the number of U.S. soldiers killed in Afghanistan since the war began in 2001, according to the Department of Defense and FBI data,” presstv.ir reports. “Chicago’s murder rate is up 54 percent from last year, according to police data . . . Homicides in Chicago have spiked this year. Chicago has had 169 murders in 2012, compared to 110 at the same date last year . . . According to FBI and Department of Defense data, 5,056 people have been murdered in Chicago since 2001, compared with 1,976 total U.S. deaths in Afghanistan since 2001. Chicago’s murder rate even outpaces total NATO coalition fatalities in Afghanistan since 2001 by a difference of more than 2,500 killed.” [h/t the rabbi]

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67 Responses to Proof Positive That Chicago’s Gun Control Laws Work. Or Not.

  1. “Dozens of U.S. cities are seeing a reversal in the long national trend of falling crime rates, according to a survey of police departments by The Wall Street Journal and federal statistics.”

    ‘The devils is always in the details’. The murder rate is up (according the linked piece) in many major US cities though it doesn’t define who is murdering who, and if it is with guns. With the ongoing decades long economic decline because of costly big government, unrealistic political-social priorities, unfriendly business practices, and mismanagement of our currency I’m surprised that we aren’t experiencing a growing crime wave.

  2. Here’s the funny thing. Was talking to a guy who was a civilian contractor in Afghanistan, doing IT stuff. Whenever he went off base, he was *required* to be armed.

    Think about that. In a place that’s SAFER THAN CHICAGO our GOVERNMENT was REQUIRING HIM TO BE ARMED AT ALL TIMES when outside the base, and he had the option of being armed inside the base (and usually did carry).

    Maybe if they required everyone in Chicago to carry the crime rate would go down to under what it is in Afghanistan? Just a thought. Whatever they’re doing isn’t working, so that’s something else to try.

    • I carry all the time, every time, every where, any where. Life is precious. Law is a fight. Simple. Free. Responsible Action.

    • The Army, at least, has a very strange relationship to weapons.

      I’m on active duty with the National Guard stateside right now. When we were in Afghanistan, we carried everywhere but to the showers. I slept with a light machine gun and my pistol was under my pillow. Disarming to go home felt distinctly unnatural and more than a little unpleasant.

      When we are stateside, we cannot carry on post at all. Fort Lewis recently loosened their weapons restrictions; you can now keep a weapon that you own in your own home (if you live there, of course). Most bases still require you to store them at the unit armory (or off post). I see my issue rifle once a year to qualify (9 rounds to zero, 40 to qual and then start cleaning), and it spends the rest of the year very tightly secured. We joke that it takes an act of Congress to get a cartridge, a soldier, and a weapon on a firing range all at the same time. No one is more afraid of the soldiers having easy access to weapons than the officer corps; no one wants to do any paperwork or have an incident on their watch, so it’s far easier to just deny access to everyone.

  3. Chicago’s murder rate is high because it has a government of the criminals, by the criminals and for the criminals. Sic semper something or other.

    • +1. People who believe that mafias and organized crime is only a tale from the early 1900’s is blind to Chicago and the east coast.

    • The nail has been struck on the head.

      Chicago , contrary to its corrupt reputation, is quite true to Democratic dogma in that its government is by the people, and for the people. Unfortunately the gangs, the drug dealers, welfare scammers & associated relatives-some of them having kids at 15- outnumber , outvote, and out bribe the honest folk. What results is predictable as much as it is tragic.

      • Having spent years in Chicago, I can tell you that it is more Democratic than most cities. The other cities restrict the vote to live people.

  4. I saw a Chicago police commissioner being interviewed. Chicago has over 130 separate gangs, with over 600 offshoots from those gangs. Most of the violence is gang related. He also said that the young guys don’t obey their elders/superiors in the gang, and go off and do their own thing. Status is everything–you dis someone, you will probably be shot.

  5. Like someone said about another city (Seattle), just a few days ago:
    They don’t have a guns problem, they have a gangs problem.

    Also a police force that is corrupt and is refusing to acknowledge where the problem really is.

  6. God I wish I could move to Wisconsin, but there dont seem to be any IT jobs outside of level 1 phone jockeys. IL will never get concealed or open carry thanks to Shitcago, unless it is done at a federal level. Even the local Fraternal Order of Police lodge refuses to endorse it. The murder clearance rate is about 35%, keep in mind that doesnt mean anyone was convicted, or that the Cook County States Attorney decided to press charges, just that the CPD managed to arrest someone, quite possibly on the flimsiness piece of evidence, if any. So if you want to murder someone, come to Chicago, keep your mouth shut, and chances are you’ll get away with it. Unsurprisingly the cops did manage to steal my first car due to tickets, and ive paid more in tickets for my second car (1999 Jeep Cherokee I6 4WD with 115k miles) than I did to buy it.

    • Plus gas is well over $4 per gallon, and name brand cigarettes will soon be over $10 per pack ($11 in the loop) once the new $1 state tax kicks in.

      • Well try California lmao! It is just as backwards. I live outside the bay area and it is still nuts. For us I am wondering when the tipping point might be economically. Once that happens and they have to really cut services, places like Oakland, are going to be war zones.

        • I have 20 acres in Madera county. My assholes neighbors 3 kids/nephews unintentionally committed suicide trying to work my gold mine because they thought a 12″ box fan would ventilate a mine they were using gas powered generators and pumps in. They tried suing me for 1.5 million, odd part is I was unemployed and he owned a contracting company, I dunno how he thought I would be able to pay.
          http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=6152497

    • Try Kansas City, either side. Lots of IT jobs open, and always looking for talent. Business friendly environments on both sides of the state line and good 2nd amendment support on both sides as well. Crime’s low, relatively, and while the pay’s less than Chicago or the coast, I bet great houses in great school districts cost way less here than there, and compare the property tax rates sometime. Gas is cheap as anywhere.

      BBQ’s better too.

  7. I get the point of the post, but to be true to AI standards, we must also consider population density. Chicago has about 3 million people in 234 square miles and Afghanistan has about 30 million people and 250 thousand square miles. Love thy neighbor, unless he’s too close.

      • Look at the magnitude of the numbers differential. Sparsely populated Afghanistan is still populated. With Chicago’s many high-rise buildings and projects, it would seem unlikely that anyplace in Afghanistan is as densely populated.

        • Yes the magnitude is surprising. 30 million afghans killed 1900 Americans, compared to 3 million Americans killing 5000 Americans over the same time period. The violence here is for the most part gang related, if we had 1000 times the amount of land in Chicago they would still be fighting each other. Don’t believe me? Spend some time working in the Chicago Public Schools.

  8. Remember Pres. B.O. is from Chicago. He is trying to ban guns across the country against the 2sd amend. Chicago is a good example what would happen if guns are band.

  9. Nearly all these murders are gang related and have taken place in just a handful of crappy neighborhoods. These neighborhoods have almost always been literal sh!tholes. The unemployment rate in these neighborhoods is well over 50% plus you can bet most of the households are 1) broken, 2) single parent (if any), 3) heavy drug use and 4) heavily dependent on gov’t cheese. Guns are not the issue. Guns are simply the preferred tool of dead-end gangbanging thugs. If bows and arrows were available and easy to use these asses would be using those instead.

    Side note: I had a chance to speak with a CPD detective and he mentioned that the smaller stuff, robbery, burglary, etc… is getting really bad. People are stealing whatever they can. Anything that could possibly turn a buck.

      • And I forgot West Englewood is 97% black as well. Anyone see a pattern here? I just got back from a 4 day camping trip in Sheboygan and a beer fest in Kohler Wisconsin. People would leave bikes unattended and unlocked, cars with open windows with the engine running, etc. No worry at all about violence or property crime. Kohler is 97% white, 0.05% black. Sheboygan is 87% white and 0.86% black. God I wish I could move to Wisconsin.

        • The gas stations even allowed you to pump before you pay! I didnt try the locks on anyones home, but i’m willing to bet I could have walked in if I wanted to.

  10. I think the problem is just what is listed above. Almost all black on black crime, almost all gang related. In the same neighborhoods over and over. It doesn’t affect too many other people than their families. So after more than half a century of programs to help inner city kids, this is what we have to show for it?

  11. This 54% increase is a direct result of the increased gun sales you guys keep bragging about. The more guns there are, the more find their way to places like Chicago.

    You guys can take some credit for that, don’t be shy.

    • Please show some statistics, or a link to a source. Or are we projecting ourself again, Mr. B?

      • “…you should not demand facts or proof for that which is self-evident.”

        “Much of what I say and think is not able to be proven with “facts,”…” – mikeb

        So, to answer your question; yes.

      • Listen Kelly, you guys have one theory that it’s the failure of Chicago gun control laws that’s responsible. I have another theory that it’s the dramatic increase in gun sales.

        You want statistics or a link, to what, a theory, a logical conclusion, to what I think is the case?

        OK, I want you to prove to me with facts and evidence that the gun control laws are responsible. Quit bullshittin’ me now, I demand proof.

        • It’s obviously the result of increased gun sales over the last few years.

          I know, I know, you want evidence for that right?

          If that’s not it, what do you think it is?

        • I tell you what, let me finish working, so I can pay taxes, and I will go home to my computer and give you statistics. I’ll even cross reference some laws and Brady scores. Might even turn it in to Robert as an article. It is coming. Be ready.

        • Mike, what link can you make between gun sales and crime? The Chicago PD provided a link between a handgun ban and the murder rate with handguns.

          If increased gun sales lead to crime, then since the increase in gun sales has been a national trend, wouldn’t the crime increase be a national trend? Chicago’s murder rate is higher than comparable cities without handgun bans. For your link between gun sales and crime, you’d need to prove either that the increase in gun sales is primarily driven by the Chicago area or provide some rationale for all crime to flow to Chicago.

        • You can have a solid steel door, and still get broken into with someone with a oxygen/acetylene torch. they are easy to steal from construction sites, or buy one for under 1k. there isnt anything you can do against a determined thief, unless you post a small army outside.

        • Most gun shops are much harder to break into (and much more likely to have an effective alarm system or someone working late) than a suburban house in mid-afternoon.

        • I have a Bernzomatic propylene/oxygen torch that I got from home depot for $60. It can cut upto 1/2″ steel, much thicker than is used in doors of most gun safes. Guns on the street go for much more than their list price thanks to the huge profits from the drug trade. Even assuming they went for the average list price of $300 of a cheaper pocket pistol, your looking at a profit of $60,000 for one robbery, or $15,000 per person. If you go by a more likely price of $1,000 per pistol, your looking at a profit of $200,000, or $50,000 per person. And they are that determined, that article I linked had people from Chicago’s far south side travel to a gun store in the far north west suburbs, when there was a much closer gun store in the southern burbs. And your telling me they cant come up with $60 for a torch, or just shop lift it? It only weighs a couple pounds and the package with fuel & oxygen is about 0.33 cubic feet.

        • Yes, SOME are that determined, but not most. Why would they be when so many gun shops are as easy to break into as a vacant summer home at the beach in the winter.

        • Do you have a reference for you claim that gun stores are as easy to break in to as a summer home? Those stores have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars of inventory.

        • Actually, that was a gross exaggeration, I admit.

          We have seen a few stories though where the break in was too easy, but I would imagine they’re the exception.

          Still, I want to consider the shared responsibility of any incident in which guns get into the wrong hands. If the gun shop that’s robbed truly had all the proper security in place, then no problem.

          I do wonder about leaving the stock out in the open, but I realize a vault large enough to hold it all is usually not practical.

          The point is, whenever a gun is stolen, we have to take a good hard look at the last lawful owner of it. That’s where the problem is.

        • Mike, if you’re going to keep calling for evidence, YOU need to provide some FIRST Like evidence for this claim

          “mikeb302000 says:
          June 4, 2012 at 13:47
          Most thieves are not all that determined. And too many gun shops are easy pickin’s.”

          You make a claim, YOU have to provide the evidence. Only AFTER you provide the evidence can you demand evidence for the counterclaim.

          Anyway, since Brutus is an honorable man, look at a suburban home. It’s got hedges or a fence to provide concealment for the burglar’s activity. It’s got large windows and (at best) a solid wooden door. They’re primarily located in neighborhoods without much vehicular traffic, so even if the burglar’s work is visible to the street, there’s a good chance nobody’s there to see it.

          A gun shop has steel bars over all the windows and either a steel door, or a glass one with steel bars over it. They have nothing around them to conceal the burglar’s activities and they’re primarily located in areas with a lot of vehicular traffic, so plenty of people are around to see it.

        • Mike, Maxons has numerous safes, but they are primarily for storing customer guns which are in for repairs/upgrades or for a safe rental program for people who own guns which are illegal in Chicago. Remember possession is illegal, not ownership. They have several hundred guns on display, do you know what kind of overhead would be involved with moving them back and forth everyday, checking the chambers every time, or the real estate all those extra safes would take up? If they get stolen the business loses hundreds of thousands of dollars, they do have a incentive to take reasonable measures to secure them. Plus safes dont do a lot of good, check you tube and you can see plenty of videos of gun safes being opened by brute force in under 1 minute. When they get broken in to, the police take the matter very seriously, and as the news reports mentioned, the guns were recovered and suspects caught.

        • I was mistaken, it took 1 minute 45 seconds to break in to the safe, and they weren’t working that fast. It is a UL rated safe as well.

    • mikeb302000 do some fact searching before you spit BS, these are gangs, the guns are most likely stolen and illegal. That has nothing to do with legal gun owners or sales. These gangs are crooks and thugs, they are not going to go to a retail shop to buy a gun, they will find ways to steal them, then they will remove the serial #’s so they will not be traced if caught to the robbery. If the police would do their job to build and convict these guys on drug and weapons charges their would be fewer guns on the street.

      In the end, if the economic and social condition that attact people to gangs is not removed, nothing will change — focusing on guns is too easy vs going after the real problems (education, access to good transportation to where work exists, economic oppurtunity, broken homes, etc.). Even if we completely disarm these gangs, they will find creative other ways to kill each other.

      You and the Brady Bunch focus FAR too much on the wrong issues

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