Better than a 1911 but what isnt?
I shall now proceed to lose a little bit of faith in the commenters of TTAG.
And on the 8th day, came forth Glock
Shhhhhh……The disciples of John Mosses Browning might hear you =).
The easiest way to know that the 92 is a poor replacement for better-designed pistols is to take it completely apart.
Go ahead, 92 fans. I dare you. Get out your 1.5, 2 and 3mm punches, your screwdrivers, spring positioning tools and strip your 92 down to the last pin, spring and plunger.
While you’re doing that, I’ll strip a 1911 down to the pins with nothing but an empty .45 ACP case and it’s own firing pin. To make it a fair competition, I’ll even do a Series 80 1911.
Now let’s put them both back together.
I’ve disassembled and re-assembled Series 80’s in less than 20 minutes, Series 70’s in a couple minutes less than that.
It’s been an hour. What’s keeping you guys? What’s that? You can’t get your 92 back together? Because you’ve lost a couple of tiny springs and plungers that launched themselves across the room? Well, shoulda thought about that before bragging on this spring bomb you call a pistol.
And no, you can’t borrow my flashlight to help look for your springs. You’re on your own, baby.
I don’t hate either gun to be honest but the 1911 is one of those guns that just work. They work well and that is why the design hasn’t changed, and companies are making them and will continue to make them for a very long time.
LOL i can completely disassemble and reassemble a M9 at depot level no problem .
Since you are pretty cocky, lets go out in the desert or even a grassland in the winter. Well see who ‘s dirty or ice encrusted weapon is still shooting.
Oh, i broke a part. No problem, its plug and play. I guess that sucks for you 1911, a gunsmith is not around to hand fit your part for you.
Face it, the 1911 is obsolete. For the money of a good one, ill invest it in a USP or HK 45, which is lightyears better of a weapon.
“lets go out in the desert…”
Hehehe, okay. Might wanna ask some of the boys who’ve been to the sandbox about the most popular use for ziplock bags over there.
LOL never needed a ziplock bag for my M9. dont know what youre talking about…
If your M9 is not reliable in the desert, then dont expect a 1911 to be any more reliable.
Yahoo! I made TTAG, one of my favorite gun sites on the Webbernet. I’m thankful I did not appear in the “Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day” feature..well, yet.
Do I get some kind of prize? A secret password, or handshake?
And, for the record, please know that this is a video on the Beretta 92 series of firearms and NOT in any way, shape or form dissing the 1911!
The Gun That Replaced the 1911. Sounds like a “diss” to me.
I cannot speak to whether the M9 is better than the 1911 or not, but I will state I sold my personal 92F recently for two reasons. The reader can decide if my reasons have relevance to this topic.
The first reason is that I couldn’t trust it. Indeed the weapon never failed to shoot or eject. But that locking block is a “???” no matter how much you like or dislike the gun . The sad calculus is this;the more you shoot the gun the better you are at using it, but the closer you come to the failure point of the locking block in the process. When is that point? Who knows. I don’t to find out when my life’s on the line.
The second reason is that Beretta pistols may as well be considered grey-market imports in terms of factory customer service for civilian owners. Adressing problems with a Beretta firearm boils down to a private gunsmith and client expense for parts and labor.Warranty? 1 year? That’s confidence inspiring. I can’t wait to bet my life on a firearm with a warranty shorter than my laptop computer sells with, not.
I’m just looking for an answer to my question, Is a 92FS considered to be a 1911? Personally, I say, no. But there seems to be some controversy. I have owned and fired repeatedly a Colt 1911 A1, a U.S. made 92FS and also a Browning 1911 380. I am amazed at the that’s going on here, between posters regarding these two pieces. I’ve never had a misfire until yesterday with the 92. I think it’s called a class 1 misfire, where the projectile was successfully fired but the casing failed to eject. This happened three consecutive times and then continued to fire normally and eject normally. For the record, the ammo was Remington UMC 9mm Luger 115 gr. MC L9MM3 Made in U.S.A. Now, my question here is, what should I consider at fault for the misfire; the ammo, the firearm, or faulty maintenance (PM). Less than 500 rounds have been fired through this weapon.
I don’t think its meant as a “diss” that’s like me saying fuel injection replaced carburetors but yet there’s nothing like an old chevelle or mustang.
Yahoo, I made my favorite gun blog, TTAG.
Do I get to learn the secret handshake, or password?
Are lavish cash prices associated with this prestigious event??
Seriously, thanks, and before the 1911 fans start hatin’ on me….I’m also a big 1911 fan, own three. Love ’em. Shoot ’em. I am simply stating the fact that the US military did move to the Beretta 92 platform in the mid-1980s replacing the venerable .45ACP/1911 platform.
Ironically, it seems now that, more and more, they are moving back to the .45ACP in the form of HK and Sig platforms, particularly in the Special Forces.
The only experience I’ve ever had with an M9 is a
I like 1911 but when time came to buy more 92f the US army US navy US marine corp bought more of them replace those seen heave action. Some locking block issue was address when 92f went to plastic guid rod that did slam hell out locking block. Other issue remain still big 9 mm handgun for sizes. Does offer better fire power some newer 9 mm handuns out there. Heaver gun care some othere 9 mm full size polymer frame 9 mm handguns out there that well last it. M9 was once state art back in 1980 but now there bunch 9 mm handguns out there that better for price point easyer live with than m9. As for beating 1911 that hard do just for fact that gun been round 100 years sent 1911 kick butt ever where it been.
WHAT ? ? ? ever heard of proof reading or grammar ? your point is lost.
Anyway, the only experience I’ve had with an M9 was a very poorly maintained pistol issued by the Navy. Seriously, that thing was crap.
It is a nothing more, or less, than a factual assertion. Perhaps if you watch the video you would have realized this.
I replaced my 92FS with the 92A1, which has a somewhat smaller and differently shaped grip (plus the 1913 rail) and I like it much better. Although I don’t buy guns for this reason, I believe the Beretta 92 is the prettiest semiauto in the market. It must be the Italian styling…
We should’ve replaced the 1911 with the Browning Hi-Power.
or a Glock or SIG, which were state of the art when the beretta was adopted.
That is the silliest claim ever. I don’t take my car apart either, and I rely on it for my life more than my pistol.
A car works mechanically a leeeettle bit differently than a firearm, dirty as they are they run much cleaner and have even stronger tendencies to cease operating for no apparent reason. And if you’re not one to dive under the hood, you still need to take it to someone to have it looked at for the basics. Not to mention if something goes tragically wrong with your vehicle and the after action report shows it was due to negligence in maintenance… your fault no matter how little maintenance you do with your own two hands.
@Michael_B Alrighty then.
@rentner nicely said sir. Very. Well. Said. I just love the 1911 fanatics who will try to come up with any possible excuse they can find to continue to assert that the 1911 is the best pistol now, and forever and ever. Amen.Sorry guys, get over it.The 1911’s day has come, and, gone.Life moves on. Deal with it.
@ptmccain Well, think about it this way: it pretty much has the same manual of arms. It’s single action, capable of accepting high capacity magazines and lacks many of the complaints associated with the 1911.
Not to mention that it would be a great NATO weapon since our other English speaking allies, Canada and Britain, use it too. In an emergency there would’ve been plenty of spare parts.
@Michael_B Sir, you are offering way too many common sense comments. Everyone knows the 1911 is the best. Please do NOT confuse us all with any facts.
/satire mode off
We also know that the military only looks at the weapon’s quality, and not some political move to push a friend’s contract. /sarcasm off
When I came on active duty in 1989 I shot my first pistol qualification with an M1911. It had seen better days. I discovered the key to shooting it accurately was similar to shooting an M60A3 tank. On the tank you always made your last movement of the main guy up, to lock all the loose pieces in the fire control system. With that 1911 you kind of shoved it forward, so that the barrel was pointed roughly in the same general direction as the sights, since the barrel bushing and slide were worn so badly. (Come to think of it, if you ran with that pistol in a holster, the rattling sounded a lot like tank tracks.)
Then we got our new M9s. Okay, now I had to carry two types of ammo (9mm for my pistol, .45 for my M2 “Greasegun”), but the pistol was tight and accurate, even if it did fire what I considered to be a sub-caliber training round. Fast forward to Desert Storm. Took my nice two year old M9 with about four or five hundred rounds through it to a range in Saudi Arabia. Fired the first round, trigger didn’t reset. Hmmm. Broken trigger return spring.
Since then I’ve been issued probably 15 different M9 pistols. Three have had the same issue. One of those was in Iraq. I don’t like trusting my life to a pistol with a one in five chance of a catastrophic failure. I don’t know if it’s a wide spread problem, but there are no Berettas in my personal gun safe. There are two 1911s…and a Glock 30.
to be honest, nice story but not much more due to a rather limited sample size.
Yep. And if it was my sample, I’d never own another M9. Your mileage may vary.
LTC F has the right of it, but my experience was far worse. Upon my reassignment to a specialty platoon, my new kit included an M-9 to complement the M-24. I was all jazzed up, time to add that pistol tab to my expert badge, etc. etc. The M-9 is a breeze to field strip, decent sights, quite accurate if you work with the shitty DA trigger, and without exception the most unreliable firearm it has ever been my misfortune to ever be cursed with handling. I’ve seen flintlocks submerged in a kiddie pool function better. I was issued four different M-9s during my stint with the snipers, and not a one could reliably feed three shells in a row. It was worse than trying to shoot a SAW with M-16 mags. I wound up just carrying my M-4 as a backup, because I needed something reliable, and the M-4 is definitely that. To put it succinctly, fuck the M-9/Beretta 92, and fuck those Italian cunts for not knowing the first thing about creating a proper sidearm.
I would have thought a sniper would know that everyone cheats on the M9 range. I’ve never fired the damn thing double action. As soon as I hear “watch your lane” I thumb the hammer back.
Oh for sure, on the qual range, you cheese it with the hammer back. Other training, such as MOUT and PSD ranges, you have to transition from primary weapon to a holstered secondary, it’s not really an option. Oh, I just remembered, speaking of how unreliable the M-9 is, listen to this. On the M-16/M-4 qualification range, if your weapon malfunctions, you clear it, and the targets keep popping. On the M-9 qual range, you get an extra 12 rounds and an ALIBI FIRE so that everyone, and I do mean everyone, can actually qualify with a pistol that fails to feed every second or third round. Even Army brass realize that no soldier can be expected to fire a 40 round qualification with such a piece of dickery without some admin help.
well as i recall, switching from the 1911 to the M9 was more of a political deal than anything related to what worked. Kinda like the switching from the M14 to the M16 deal…
someone once told me that every major part of the M9 was made by someone else.
Except that the M-16 is a great weapon, and the M-9 is dogshit. Whatever problems the first run had, the M-16/AR family is probably the best-tested, most accurate and reliable military weapon in the world, second in reliability only to the AK, which suffers on the accuracy plane.
I’m no 1911 fanboy, I’d much rather see us go to Glocks than back to those old guns, but anything, and I do mean anything, is better than the M-9. I’d rather carry my Browning Buckmark into combat than the Beretta. Hell, I’d rather carry a stout slingshot.
I have never had any problem with any of my Berettas, and I meant that as plural. They are all accurate, reliable and easy to shoot. I never had any problems (other than bad magazines) with the M9’s I was issued in the Army. I think that many troops are prone to exaggeration on the subject. I own a few 1911’s as well, but I still shoot my 92’s better. As for taking them apart, easy as pie. I’m not replacing extractors or anything of that nature though. I have put in new trigger springs before (never broken, just replaced on used models), sear springs, and hammer springs.
Methinks that LTC F and Tarrou are a couple of walts. Where and when did you serve? Ranks? MOS’s? Units? Where did you go to train? Who trained you in BCT? Who was your last CO? How the hell did the M9 ever get accepted if it sucks that horribly? The majority of troops are confident in the M9 service pistol. If you were really in the military, then these things should be easy to provide and prove.
A M9 challenges a m1911 to a drinking contest. The M9 says ha you can’t make it past 8 rounds.
M1911s had their days but it’s over. I think 3 hits with a 9mm could take down an enemy. Do the math an m1911 holds 8 rounds and could take down five people if you shot double tap. An m9 holds 15 rounds and could take down ten people with 2-3 shots each. I get it the m1911 is a pretty cool gun and one of Americas most classic weapons but it’s time has gone. Let the military do it’s best to arm it’s soldiers.
The M9 was a good ol’ boy drug deal where the officer in charge made the agreement with Beretta then, completely coincidentally of course, went to work as an executive for Betetta. It’s a crap gun that had too many working parts for field use. The slide would shear off after so many rounds and hit the shooter in the face. The “fix” was to place a piece of metal along the rails which didn’t stop the malfunction it just prevented the slide from hitting you in the face. I’m glad it’s finally going.
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