New York Legislature Seems Determined To Test Gun Makers’ Resolve

We’ve already written about Remington’s threat to “reconsider its commitment to the New York market altogether” if microstamping becomes law in the Empire State. The State Legislature seems thoroughly unimpressed. They passed the microstamping bill yesterday by a comfortable 79-52 margin. If it passes the Senate, Governor Andrew Cuomo’s already indicated he’ll sign it into law. But don’t worry, it won’t be a burden to New York gun owners . . .

That’s the fertilizer Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver was freely applying after the vote, anyway.

Silver and (bill sponsor Michelle) Schimel noted that this bill will not place any restrictions on lawful gun ownership or impair access to the lawful purchase of weapons. The certification process called for in the bill is entirely industry based. The manufacturers of semiautomatic handguns will incur minimal costs to adopt this technology.

If you’ve read any of Bruce Krafft’s exhaustive takedowns of the unproven, easily defeated kabuki that is microstamping, you can imagine just how fragrant the halls of the capitol must have been once Speaker Silver was finished applying that steaming load of misinformation about the effects of the measure.

So given the legislature’s apparent determination to play to New York’s vocal anti-gun constituencies (and their apparent disregard for a couple of thousand tax-paying jobs), the resolve of companies such as Remington, Kimber and Henry may soon be put to the test. Will they put a significant amount of money where their threats to move have been and follow through if microstamping happens? Watch this space.

comments

  1. avatar Chewbacca Defense says:

    How rediculous. Beyond the absurd amount of money and lack of effectiveness of the technology, the part that gets me is that this won’t actually help them solve any crimes. What additional information is microstamping going to provide police…nothing. This bullet was shot from this gun? That can already be determined without microstamping. It’s bullet registration.

    1. avatar Moonshine7102 says:

      And it isn’t nearly the exact science that shows like NCIS would have you believe.

      1. avatar Chewbacca Defense says:

        Plus lets say they find a casing and want to match it up to a gun. Like Bruce points out in his linked article all that tells you is the gun it fired out of. That doesn’t mean the owner of the gun is the one who fired it. Plus for them to even get to that point there would be some sort of list…or registration…which has been determined to be unconstitutional…

      2. avatar matt says:

        finger print forensics and bullet/cartridge forensics is pseudo science

      3. avatar Matt in FL says:

        Science Montage: Movie vs Actual

        http://xkcd.com/683/

    2. avatar Jwhite says:

      I recall hearing microstamping is a waste of time because after a few hundred rounds the stamp wears out. this might be a way to limit new gun sales.

      1. avatar Jwhite says:

        LIke letting people own cars but not supplying gasoline, or making it very hard to purchase gas.

    3. avatar Not Too Eloquent says:

      She’s semi-cute, much cuter than most liberal gun grabbers.

      1. avatar HAVE GUN says:

        “She’s semi-cute, much cuter than most liberal gun grabbers.”

        For 55yrs old, not to shabby at all.

  2. avatar Moonshine7102 says:

    “Will they put a significant amount of money where their threats to move have been and follow through if microstamping happens?”
    ——
    We can hope. Putting in an order with Brownells for firing pins.

  3. avatar Aharon says:

    Remington, Marlin, and the Freedom Group have relatively recently spent lots of money relocating operations to upstate NY to get a better tax deal. I’m cynical that their current ownership and leaders have any ideological values other than maximizing profits. I suspect that they don’t have enough incentive to move out of state.

    1. avatar Chewbacca Defense says:

      If profit is a concern, then they would most certainly not want to be in NYS with this requirement. It will cost a lot of money to make this happen.

      1. avatar ST says:

        Whether these firms leave or not should be determined by economics ,not adverse politics. Packing up a business is not as simple as putting the people and machinery into a semi trailer and setting course for Utah.

        Certain machinery either cant be moved or is too expensive to move. Some craftsmen and women aren’t in a position to uproot their families for a life on the other side of the nation. Adresses need to be changed, warranty repairs would need to be re-routed, parts and suppliers would have to change ,and building rent and lease terms would have to be considered. Tax consequences would need to be considered, especially in a liberal district like New York State.That’s just the outgoing side of things.

        As far as picking a place to move to goes, a new building site would need to be selected, a new purchase or rent of real estate and building space would have to be established, and transport arrangements for staff, employees, and inventory would have to be worked out with the minimum interruption to business activities. Im not saying they shouldn’t move ,but don’t be surprised if these companies stay in NY despite the adverse politics.

        1. avatar CarlosT says:

          A lot of states would be willing to help mitigate those costs in return for the new jobs, especially in this economy. If Remington or other firearms manufacturers shopped around, they could very well find a deal that made it worthwhile.

        2. avatar GS650G says:

          Companies have found ways to move production half way around the world, this should be no exception. Smith Corona went south years ago from NY, plenty of others have left. Given the right incentives any number of states would love a real manufacturing company to locate to their neck of the woods.

  4. avatar 2Wheels says:

    Move Remmy, do it! Then we’ll see how she explains driving away jobs in this economy.

    It’s not like other states won’t throw money at Remmy to set up shop in their area.

    1. avatar Chewbacca Defense says:

      “It’s not like other states won’t throw money at Remmy to set up shop in their area.”

      +1

  5. avatar Charlie Given says:

    All the NY State government has done is transfer the $40 million cost of the utter failure of the COBIS system to the manufacturers and consumers of weapons. Not one single crime solved by COBIS at an outlandish cost, so double down on failure and make someone else pay for it.

  6. avatar ST says:

    I doubt the anti-gun members of NY State government are losing sleep at the prospect of NY located gun firms moving out. Id imagine the state governor and cohorts’ response to that prospect would be “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”

    Sure , jobs are lost ,but the Democrats gain political capital among their bleeding heart voting base.Come next election cycle the NY state politicos can brag that they “put a dent into the multi-billion dollar gun lobby while standing up to the threats of the death-dealers at Remington arms, Kimber, etc.”

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      All the more reason for them to leave. If they have no influence with the state government and the state is willing to arbitrarily hurt their interests for political gain, then they should move to a state where the political landscape is more favorable.

    2. avatar Pascal says:

      I agree that this is grand standing, but those Remmy workers are a Union and they hold a lot of clout. This is nothing more than election year window dressing and I bet it does not pass the Senate. All they need is for it to make the news, because they need the PR, when the bill gets defeated nobody will hear it.

  7. avatar Chewbacca Defense says:

    Why do politicians insist on pushing laws that are so easily circumvented by criminals…brass catcher (plastic bag even), revolver, file, nail polish, etc. What’s the point of spending millions of dollars on something that is so easily defeated.

    1. avatar John Fritz says:

      I believe that many (most?) of these politicians responsible for introducing and voting on these bad laws honestly do not comprehend how the various schemes actually work.

      We all read Bruce’s stories and see the limitations and failures of microstamping because we understand the mechanics of it, how it can be bypassed, its weaknesses and its limitations.

      Politicians are surrounded by sycophants, enablers and yes men/women who, for personal or other reasons, only tell them what they want to hear. “Sure that will work. Good job! Yes, this will be effective.” and on and on. Never an honest explanation of the true shortcomings Because their bosses don’t want to hear that, right?

      Viola. Another new crap law.

      I pray that if this bill does end up becoming law that one or some of those firearms manufacturers sticks it right up the New York Legislature’s collective ass.

    2. avatar Silver says:

      I believe that politicians know it won’t work. It’s all about appearing to the public that they “did something.” They couldn’t care less if it doesn’t solve any crimes, so long as they can shrug and tell their sheep voters that they tried.

  8. avatar Ralph says:

    The very elaborate shell game known as The Freedom Group has been paid off with millions in New York State tax breaks. Cerberus Capital is based in New York City. Bottom line — Remmy’s not going anywhere even if New York requires microstamping every Remmy employee’s ass.

  9. avatar Joe Grine says:

    I haven’t read the bill, but if it is really true that it is entirely industry based, then I assume that it would be legal for the end-user to replace the factory firing pin / striker with an unmarked version.

    1. avatar ST says:

      Requires semiautomatic pistols manufactured or delivered to any licensed dealer
      in this state to be capable of microstamping ammunition; establishes fines for
      violations of this requirement and provides for an affirmative defense if the
      dealer had a certification from the manufacturer.

      -bill summary , located here:http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A.1157-B&term=2011

      This law will have drastic consequences for NY gun buyers , as the law mandates that not only semiauto handguns MADE in NY have to have the microstamping feature, but guns *delivered* to in state dealers as well. I suppose this means Gunbroker and Bud’s will be effectively outlawed for NY gun owners , unless gun companies decide selling in NY is worth modifying their products to comply.

    2. avatar matt says:

      It seems that way.
      “S 6. Subdivision 5 of section 265.15 of the penal law, as amended by 22 chapter 695 of the laws of 1987, is amended to read as follows:
      5. The possession by any person of a defaced machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun is presumptive evidence that such person defaced the same, PROVIDED, HOWEVER, THAT THIS SUBDIVISION SHALL NOT APPLY TO POSSESSION OF A SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL WHERE THE DEFACEMENT ALLEGED CONSISTS OF DEFACING A MICROSTAMPING COMPONENT OR MECHANISM OF SUCH PISTOL.”

  10. avatar Pascal says:

    Henry Repeating Arms
    59 East 1st Street
    Bayonne, NJ 07002

    Henry has not been in NY since 2002. There are I believe companies that make parts

  11. avatar Greg Camp says:

    Gun makers are welcome here in Arkansas. Our carry licenses are recognized by forty states, and we don’t have piles of silly restrictions. Then the companies can issue a statement to New York like Ronnie Barrett’s to California–If you’re going to pass stupid laws, all contracts are cancelled, including future sales and repair work.

  12. avatar JSIII says:

    I would love to see every single gun business pull out of NY and flip em the bird bigtime. I would also love to see gun makers like Glock refuse to sell the NYPD equipment, much like Barret refuses to sell its rifles to California Law Enforcment over the states ban of 50 cal rifles. Maybe if suddenly the people that guard and protect these politicians were forced to go out of state to get firearms they would realize how stupid this is.

  13. avatar Bob says:

    Push the tip of the firing pin out where you can touch it. This may be done in different ways depending on your particular semi-auto firearm, but it isn’t difficult. Lightly scrape a file across the tip of the firing pin or scratch the tip with a pocket knife a few time, not enough to remove any significant amount of metal, just enough to deface the microstamp surface. Now your gun’s microstamping feature has been defeated.

    Don’t tell me that the criminal element can’t figure out how to do this also… Microstamping is a ridiculous farce. It’s sole purpose is to drive up the price of handguns slightly, and hopefully to drive a few handgun manufacturers out of business, or out of the USA. Any legislator that supports microstamping is either morally corrupt or an ideologically motivated, factually ignorant, fool.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      But that would be a crime !

      1. avatar matt says:

        “S 6. Subdivision 5 of section 265.15 of the penal law, as amended by 22 chapter 695 of the laws of 1987, is amended to read as follows:
        5. The possession by any person of a defaced machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun is presumptive evidence that such person defaced the same, PROVIDED, HOWEVER, THAT THIS SUBDIVISION SHALL NOT APPLY TO POSSESSION OF A SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL WHERE THE DEFACEMENT ALLEGED CONSISTS OF DEFACING A MICROSTAMPING COMPONENT OR MECHANISM OF SUCH PISTOL.”

        1. avatar Parthenon says:

          Ao not only is it a farce: it is a farce of a farce.

    2. avatar Leo Atrox says:

      File off or scratch the face of the firing pin? It would probably be easier–and more likely legal–to simply put nail polish or epoxy over the face of the firing pin to smooth out that face a bit. No defacement and no usable stamp. Win/win … Unless you’re a NYS taxpayer.

      (Of course I wouldn’t recommend attempting to circumvent any law; but for the purposes of this discussion, I’m “thinking aloud” here.)

      1. avatar CarlosT says:

        I doubt many of us would recommend circumventing any law, but this law, like almost all gun control laws, depends on the idea that a criminal would be unwilling to commit one additional crime than the one he was previously planning on.

        1. avatar Bob says:

          A criminal could also pick up a few spent casings from a gun range, and seed his crime scene with yours or my microstamp number. Knowing that, I’ll be defacing the microstamp on my pistol before I put even one round through it.

        2. avatar CarlosT says:

          I’d just invest in a brass catcher. Or a plastic bag and some tape. That way, I’m not running afoul of any laws and also not leaving myself vulnerable to that sort of thing.

          Even simpler: staying the hell away from New York.

        3. avatar Parthenon says:

          I’d just use a knife. What are my victims gonna do, shoot me?

    3. avatar Jarhead1982 says:

      Haynes vs US 390, 85, 1968 and the 5th amendment means that these useless as teets on a boar hog laws don’t apply to felons.

      Something about that no self incrimination thingy.

      Shoot the firearm enough that the marking is unreadable and force the arseholes to prove otherwise then sue them all.

  14. avatar KYgunner says:

    Given that there is an average 15 year “time to crime” gap for guns used in crimes (http://www.nssfblog.com/time-to-crime-statistics-cast-doubt-on-doj-gun-trafficking-claims/), even if microstamping was a viable option, the results wouldn’t be seen for a decade and a half, assuming that the stamps are only on new-manufacture weapons. Not to mention the fact that criminals would just buy guns (illegally of course) out of state from somewhere that doesn’t micro, or file off the stamp. Ridiculous waste of time and money. Lets hope this cancer never spreads past NY.

  15. avatar ready,fire,aim says:

    all the gun manufactures can move down here to texas you will be accepted with open arms

  16. avatar Robin Bannister says:

    You lost me at “New York Legislature”…

  17. avatar Sanchanim says:

    Can I ask a question? Since I haven’t read up on this cool new technology which will make our streets safer, I just got to know..
    This is putting a micro stamp on the firing pin correct? And I don’t know if firing pins need to be purchased through an FFL or not.
    If not then no reason why you can lightly file the pin or replace it all together.
    So really it solves nothing.
    To that end I hate to say this but if all the manufacturers refuse to make micro stamped guns, and supply design NYC then what? Oh and is there a restriction for LEO’s? I gotta know!

  18. avatar LTC F says:

    If private industry had any brains (they don’t) gun makers would move out of New York, and refuse to sell or service any product in New York, to include law enforcement. (Much like Barrett did for California.)

    I’d take it a step further. Coke, Pepsi, and RC should all stop selling their products in New York City. Not just soda. Iced tea, Minute Made juices, bottled water, everything. “Hey Nanny Bloomberg….No refreshments for you!” See how long the government stupidity lasts when you have to drive to Jersey to buy orange juice.

    1. avatar Silver says:

      Knowing the current Emperor in Chief, O and his lackeys would just push forth an unconstitutional mandate allowing themselves to force companies to sell where the government says so.

  19. avatar Crow says:

    God dammit, NY does not need any more restrictions on 2A.

    1. avatar Bill F says:

      When we dismantle the bridges and tunnels and push NYC farther out into the ocean, the rest of New York State will be far better off.

      1. avatar Bill F says:

        This has already passed the Assembly several times but can’t seem to get past Senate. Here’s hoping the pattern continues.

        This from today’s Legislative Gazette:
        June 20, 2012
        “As the legislative session dwindles to a close, the Assembly on Tuesday passed controversial legislation to mandate microstamping in New York state. The bill has been delivered to the Senate, where it is unlikely to see a vote on the floor.”

  20. avatar racer88 says:

    What about brass “identity theft?” Should I be worried that my microstamped brass will be picked up by ne’er-do-wells at the range who will sprinkle the ground at crime scenes to throw the LE dogs off the scent?

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      You could get one of these: http://www.sherwoodakuna.com/brasscatcher.htm

      Or tape a bag to your slide.

      1. avatar matt says:

        Wow, that guy actually wants $80 + s/h for that?

  21. avatar Brutus says:

    Just emailed my NY state senator – this bill is a waste of money.

  22. avatar Mark Horning says:

    I just wish my Governor was smart enough to offer these companies the right incentive package.

  23. avatar Chas says:

    Just more smoke and mirrors from the anti-gun, do-nothing politicians.

  24. avatar homobangbangamus says:

    The evidence is clear. They don’t want or value Remington and feel that they can do as they want and Remington will simply comply.

    The bit about the costs was crap and everyone knows it except the general population. If I owned Remington, we’d already be gone. If Remington stays after this, they will no long enjoy my respect nor my business.

  25. avatar Stacy says:

    Dan your hair looks nice.

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email