Its not you, its me. Really. I just can’t handle you anymore. I can’t afford you and I don’t want to carry you. These are all my problems, not yours. We can still be friends though, right? And I’m sure there’s a bunch of guys and gals in the northeast who need you. And hey, its not like we’ll never see each other. I still have the 1911 remember? . . .

Yep, I’m done with .45 ACP for daily carry. I made the decision a few weekends ago when I fired my (then) daily carry M&P 45C and my new XD(m) 3.8 9mm compact side by side. I did a simple drill where I stepped right, drew my piece, and fired five rounds at 10 yards. I watched in horror as I outshot myself with the XD(m). The worst part was that those five shots from the XD(m) were my first with the gun. I had literally never fired the gun before and outshot my daily carry piece which has eaten close to a thousand rounds of less than inexpensive ammo. Here’s why I made the decision to switch.

  1. The XD(m) carries more. 13 + 1 vs. 8 + 1 in the M&P. Carrying an extra compact mag gives me 27 rounds on my person vs. 17 with the M&P.
  2. 9 mm is a serious contender. Any modern defensive bullet leaving the barrel of the XD(m) is putting the hurt on another human if it comes to that.
  3. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. This translates directly to more practice
  4. I shoot it better. That big .45 ACP doesn’t do a damn bit of good if I can’t put rounds on target. Simply put, I shoot the 9 better.

So there you go. Count me in the 9 mm camp. I’m done with .45 ACP except for my weekends away with the 1911. I just can’t find a compelling reason to carry it. Your mileage might vary.

172 Responses to Goodbye .45 ACP

  1. Could it be the difference in the gun rather than the caliber change that improved your hits? The is very little difference between the destructive power between the two– hit placement and number of hits are , by far, the most important elements of stopping power. Always carry what you can shoot better.

    • An interesting test would be if you could get the XDm Compact .45ACP as a T&E gun and compare how you shoot that versus your M&P. Then you’d really know if it was the caliber or the gun that made the difference.

      • I own a XDG9845BSP which is the mod 2 45 acp version and I also own a XDG9801HCSP a 9 mm and i find they both shoot just as well.

    • I agree. It maybe the difference in guns. I have the M&P 40 Pro series, And a XDM 3.8 in .45. The XDM is more accurate. My Wifes’ XD 9mm sub-compact is even more accurate than the Smith.

    • its the gun. the XD /XDM are just better firearms.

      i shoot once a month all 4 mags 13 rounds each, obe sec between shots @10yrds. out of 52 rounds 5 on average are outside a 2-3inch grouping. so
      natural i dont even have to aim, literally point and im on target. every action as i sqeeze its on target.

      try it, after 5-8 shots rounghly 1inch grouping you will start to drift. if you dont practice like most dont, your hands will shake after 2-3 mags most shots being worthless. using an all metal gun the fatigue will make your targeting a big issue. the XDM 45acp i have is so natural and a bit lighter i can go for hours of shooting and still have a solid stable grip on it. only down side is no safety.
      i just never carry chambered or store loaded… ah yes it requires more regular training of drawing, and chambering as i am aquiring target as one motion.

    • yep… i shoot tofhter groups with my xdm .45acp them my glock19 9mm. also less recoil. the glocks are terrible on recoil.

      yes many love the glock, but the XDM in any caliber is better then a glock hands down. when it comes to cleaning n parts… they are basicly the same.

      i love the 1911s but my XDM .45acpsits by the bed. each month or more i take all 4 mags 13rds each and shoot them all in less then one minute 52rds in less then one minute averaging a 2-3inch group at 10 yrds maybe 3 might be out of that group. now anyone that shoots .45acp knows the more you shoot theore wild the shots get if you dont pause. first mag tends to be good as the rest start moving all over.

      the glock bucks to badly beyond 2nd mag i dont want to fire it anymore and its a 9mm.

      the gun does make a big difference. trigger, grip, recoil, well i prefer my xdm to any other polymer gun so far. who knows an H&K or SIG might be better.

    • its the gun…

      i have 45acp xdm size only 10% difference from what he shot. 13+1 of firepower.

      switch my glock 9mm 15+1. same barrel length.

      the glock is a wrist breaker 2 clips max if you steading shoot 1 shot every 1.5 sec both mags. wrist is dead. gtouping goes from 2inch @10yrds first clip and goes to poop fast. 6″ on last 3 rounds.

      XDM i month do a 4mag run down, all 4 mags 230gr FMJ in under 60seconds you see one 2.5 inch group and 2-3 within 4″ area. hands n wrist are stable and not sore. closest to an all metal gun for stability and looks nasty cool. do far i have never missed by 6″ target at 10yrds. rapid fire or even from the hip. lefty or righty i never miss with my XDM.

      the glock sits with all 3 mags loaded, hoping i never need to use other then a few times a year for training. Glock=Toy Junk.

      the XDM is as simple as the glock, more stable, equal to Sigs, FNH, and HK(never shot a CZ).

      cops i know shoot XDM or Sigs. state uses Sigs but many use their personal XDM’s

      XDm or XDs same gun just double or single stacks. come with nice set of accessories and 2 mags room for 4 in case.

      as for ammo… what 15% cost difference is no big deal. 9mm does nice tissue damage if hollow point, but 45acp 230gr fmj will do more damage and break every bone it hits still leave a bigger cavitation. unless you spend big money on high cost 9mm ammo.

      9mm to the leg, hes still walking. 45acp to the leg, hes not walking, or limping, may be crawling.

      • The Glock in 9mm/.40/.357
        Sig/.45 cal is far from a piece of toy junk. The XD is decent handgun but please tell me’ how many LE agencies and militaries use the XD???

        Yeah – proof of a competent , low maintenance and successful firearm you can shoot from right out the box and TRUST YOUR LIFE ON( I know- 2 OIS as a LEO…dirtt and and banged around but NEVER skipped a beat)

      • BS- had a skinny assed 17 yr old gang member, drunk and shot in the abdomen and right thigh,hobble up to me and a partner while on patrol back in 1993; turns out he and his “homeys” got caught in a drive by and he was dropped off at a local hospital- in fear his mother would find out( typical dumb kid!) he literally walked/ limped 2 miles to try to get to his cousins house before exhaustion and blood loss caught up to him. Turns out he was hit with 230 grn .45 ball ammo- and yes he lived( and no, he didn’t tell is WHO shot him- again typical dumbass kid!)

        The 45 is still an effective round but it is not the super all god of doom round you fanstasy range warriors make it out to be- shot placement STOPS threats not ” magic super bullets”….

        • After the Thompson-LaGarde tests it was stated that nothing less than a 3″ solid shot would reliably stop a man. No handgun will reliably stop a human or even keep then from running off or doing other “things”1325-1350. Full rifle caliber cartridges from a M1 or M14, for example, had a very good reputation with ball/AP ammo. The key in a gun fight is making the other guy stop what he is doing. I don’t carry hardball no matter what I am carrying since I worry about over penetration. In the end we can only go by what AVERAGES the best stop for the type handgun we choose to carry. The military using ball ammo has better luck with the 45. This is indicated by the Marines adopting a Colt 1911 with a rail in 45 as the M45. If stopping power is the only criteria then a 4” 357 mag revolver with 125 gr HPs is probably the best. But the 1911 is easier to conceal. I have 3 colt 1911s 2 in 38 super and a 45 I have owned many over the years. The 38 Super shoots flatter and sometimes I get a shot at a Coyote where I live. I like the 1911. Its a very robust and reliable firearm. Something that cannot be said of the Beretta which tends to break slides. The thing I find amusing is that almost every modern semi-auto handgun is based on Browning designs and patents. So we have to wonder about the “newer is better” thing…. There has been virtually nothing that affects reliability, safety or stopping power invented since the Brownings of the early 20th C. In fact many of the newer guns not only have no better stopping power or reliability they are often down right dangerous.

  2. I’m with you Tyler. I was going broke shooting my Sig 220. I switched to a CZ P07 Duty in 9mm and have been enjoying $10 ammo since. The CZ fits my hand better and I’m crazy accurate with it as well.

    My only real argument for the .45 was that when I moonlighted for the Sheriff’s Office I wanted something that could punch through a windshield without fragmenting or radically deforming like tests showed .40 and 9mm did. Hornady solved that issue with their Critical Duty as far as I can tell, so I switched back to 9mm.

    • I agree on a CC weapon, the 9mm is hard to beat, and the only round I keep in the 9mm is the Critical Duty. The one I keep close at hand around the house is a full size Glock 20, 10mm. I keep it loaded with 155 grain solid copper Buffalo Barnes, 1500 fps meat shredders. I can accurately place all 15 rounds from the first mag in a few inches, and less than 10 seconds elapsed time, when necessary. I have to know that if a group of thugs on PCP kick the door in, one or two rounds a piece will stop them. I just can’t accept that the 9 is as effective as the 800Ft Lbs of energy and supersonic shockwaves the 10 throws out there.

      • 800 ft. lbs is meaningless if overpenetration occurs (a likely scenario with two-legged targets).. that doesn’t equate to 800 ft. lbs of energy transferred. you might as well fire more than once. in that case, a .45 would be just as effective.

  3. It’s always seemed to me that hitting with a .22 is better than missing with a .50. Unless maybe the explosion deafens and disorients your attacker. Something like a flashbang. But seriously, your experience with the XD 9 was the same as mine. Sort of a, “What the heck?! This thing is accurate!!” Made me think twice about my .40 S&Ws too. My biggest reason for not going with the 9mms is I spend (not as much as I’d like) time in the mountains, and need something larger for the four-footed problems.

  4. I know exactly how you feel. That is why I don’t carry the .44 magnum and I carry the .357 magnum.

  5. I feel like I could have written this post. I just sold my Kahr P45 and picked up a Ruger SR9c. Never been happier. Yeah, $18-20 for a box of .45 was killing me. Plus, now I have 10+1 rounds instead of 6+1. And it is a heck of a lot easier to put tight groups on target really fast with the 9mm.

    • The .45 ACP is pricey ammo, no doubt but its the stopping power I’m looking for. I found a joint that sells 300 New Top quality rounds for $1000 and $65 for once fired practice rounds with various primers. I know 300 is pricey by quality is what I want and if i can hit center mass from 50 yards with crappy practice rounds with my old 1911, i know i can do it with the Quality ammo. nobody said high caliber weapons and ammo would be cheap. I use the .45 for home protection, i haven’t carried that out for years. What i do carry is the Springfield Full Size Model .45ACP with the 13 round mag. This baby feels just right in the hand and the action is smooth. i expected more of wallop from a smaller piece , but to my surprise, it wasn’t any more than I expected. When I was oversea, i saw SOP with the .45’s because of the stopping power. I was issued an M-14 with some nice upgrades. It seems like what was old is new again. If the DoD went back to the .45 ACP, Springfield is a built in the USA company. I never agreed with the switch. whats the sense if you can’t knock down what you can hit. Politics and the Plastic Fantastic corporate boys pushed their agendas. the .45 could have been researched to upgrade it then. I own a pre-WW2 Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 and I love it, with all it quirks

      • @ RickRavenRumney, Springfield is made in Croatia, not the USA, sorry. But point taken, that is why I carry the 500 S&W instead of the 45-70 revolver.

      • Try the Ammunition Depot! (www.ammunitiondepot.com) They have .45 ACP ammo at prices you can afford, Including roundnose, JHPs and specialty ammo to boot! Their ammo is top stuff and brand names. They are shooters first!

  6. Im right there with ya Tyler. I shoot my 9mm and my 45 (both XD family) about equally. However the economy the 9 offers in size, recoil, price of range ammo makes it the clear winner for EDC. I won’t be giving up my 45 however. She’ll be staying around for those occasions when the penetration a heavy, hard cast bullet offers might be useful.

  7. I agree with the Rabbi, you’d have to shoot a M&P 9 against your 45 to be sure. It could be the weapon system.

  8. First thought: Blasphemy! But these are valid points. I’m currently packing either a .38 LCR or G19, but I want a compact .45. Just because…

  9. i carry both 9mm and 45 acp for daily carry. that being said is it easier to shoot a 9mm carry piece? Of course, recoil is less while the weight of the fire arm stays about the same so you feel less recoil from a 9mm than a 45 which speeds up follow up shots and for some people reduces flinching. That being said when I need to carry small single stack pistol for concealment I prefere the 45 because well i loose 1 bullet compared to most 9mm single stack pistols but get a moderate power gain.

  10. One single such test doesn’t mean much. Mentally, you are more likely to shoot your new gun better.
    Having said that, yes 9mm is cheaper and you can afford to shoot it more, and it takes a good shooter to be as accurate with a compact 45. Following that logic, you’ll be switching to a .22lr next. Regardless, carry the gun that ensures that you carry one at all times.
    I am equally accurate with my compact 45& 9mm (well maybe marginally better with the 45). But I shoot a 9mm in competition, so I carry the compact version of the same gun as my EDC.

    • “Following that logic, you’ll be switching to a .22lr next.”

      I was wondering about that line of logic too. The Euros generally think Americans over do it in choosing ammo calibers way beyond the need whether for hunting or police work. Then again, what do the Euros know with their track record of losing wars and needing Americans to rush to their rescue? I’ll stick with my 357.

      • Just wondering but what wars would have the “Euros” lost, had American intervention not saved them? WW1/2? Just a FYI but Germany is part of Europe.

        • Saved in the more general abstract sense. Without America going to the aid of Europe in WW1 and WW2 those conflcits would have dragged out for many more years before being somehow differently resolved. Yes, I’m actually aware that Germany is part of Europe. In a way, we saved all or most of Germany from possibly being overrun and ruled over by the Soviets for a very long time. We also helped the Soviets lots with all the supplies and equipment we sent them, etc etc.

        • Aharon, I’ll have to disagree with you there, at least partially.
          The USA’s impact in WW1 wasn’t that great, and altho I could see WW1 lasting possibly 6-12 months longer without the USA’s involvement, I think the results would most likely be the same.
          The #1 reason why Germany lost WW1 was the British sea blockade. Other major reasons were the failed Schliefen plan, the incompetence of the other Central Powers (Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire were a joke. Would not recommend starting another war with those as allies…. oh wait. Shit.) plus Britains higher level of Industrialisation.

          As far as anyone saving anyone from anything in WW1, I don’t know. Many historians seem to refer to it as “The war in wich nothing of value was won”.
          Yes, if Germany had won WW1, the balance in Europe today would be different. But it wouln’t be a Nazi Dystopia either, and I find it hard to tell if, as a whole, the world today would be a worse place.
          WW2 most likely wouldn’t have happend. Germanys political system would also most likely slowly have become more democratic over time. Ofc some things would have been bad, i.e. France and Germany would probably still not get along, and European states would still be busy competing against each other instead of cooperating. Still, no Versailles, no Nazis, no Holocaust, no WW2, no 72 Million people dead. Probably worth it.
          (Sht, one could even argue that the EU currently is dominated by Germany anyways – I’m German, and sometimes it seems that way to me, and I don’t think thats a good thing. Maybe its just a temporary thing, personally I hope France and the UK get back on their feet again ASAP.)

          With that being said, I feel GB (and the USA) ethically reacted correctly at the time. Hindsight is one thing, being in the situation at that time is another. (In a similar vein, I can understand Chamberlains Appeasement strategy. Good man, unfortunately he was in charge at the wrong time.)
          Willhelm II was a nutjob, attacking Belgium was not just stupid but also completely unjustified, same for the unrestricted submarine warfare & use of Gas weaponry.

          Now on the the part I agree with, but want to add something to.
          “In a way, we saved all or most of Germany from possibly being overrun and ruled over by the Soviets for a very long time. We also helped the Soviets lots with all the supplies and equipment we sent them, etc etc.”

          Not just that! The US also saved Germany (and the rest of Europe) from Nazi domination.
          Imo living in the 3rd Reich was certainly no fun, even if u were a German with 100% german ancestry.
          No free speech, absolutely no civil rights. You could have been hanged for looking funny at “The Führer” or even just a regular SS-officer. Start a relationship with a non-german women? Hanged or castrated. Criticize the NSDAP? Hanged again. Yeah, no thanks.

          Also, the US handeled the situation in Germany (and again, the other European countrys too) after WW2 extremely smart. Probably couldn’t even do it better with hindsight.

        • No they didn’t. The Soviets were part of WWII. In fact, they had an agreement with the Nazi’s and the Japanese and invaded Finland. Even after the Nazi backed jumped the Soviets, the Soviets maintained their neutrality with the Japanese until a few months before Japan surrendered and after the 3rd Reich fell.

          The Soviets were relying on live cattle and chickens to supply their army that extended into Germany. It would have taken Patton about 3 weeks to starve the bastages back into mother Russia.

        • That Russia won WW-II is complete BS. Did you know that 1/3 of the A/C used by the Russians were British or American made? This comes from a German Ace who flew on the Eastern front. Remember the convoys going to Murmansk? And the “Persian Route” and the “Pacific route”? They delivered 17.5 MILLION tons of war material and supplies to Russia. We delivered only 22 million tons of material to Western Europe for use there from 1942 on. The amount of material we sent to Russia was staggering. Among the 17.5 million tons were about 13000 aircraft, 97% combat types with spares parts, over 7000 tanks, 420000+ trucks and jeeps, YEAH 420000, almost 2000 Locomotives, explosives and ammunition and on and on and on…. $1.3 TRILLION in food. And this was just from the USA. Britain also furnished 7000+ a/c and tanks and etc etc. This should give you SOME idea of who REALLY won WW-II. I would also point out that while supplying all this to the USSR and Britain and to the fighting in Africa and Western Europe we built a Pacific Fleet that was larger than any 2 other Navies on the planet, plus the Atlantic fleet, our total output of military aircraft was over 320000 (97000 bombers alone), besides all the fighting ships the USA also built over 3000 large cargo ships. So ask yourself without the USA who would have won WW-II? The Atlantic Ocean would have been closed of by U-Boat if not for our Navy.
          For an answer I suggest that you look at the war production of the United States from 1939 to 1946.
          The British would have been isolated and made completely combat ineffective by 1943 if not for us, their merchant fleet would have ceased to exist at the loss rates of 1941. THEN who would have taken the pressure off the Russian Front?

        • Dan P, I’m glad someone is correcting this nonsense about Russia winning WW2.
          Interesting numbers btw.

          Russia winning WW2 and “freeing” Europe is complete nonsense. (Oh yeah, im sure Poland and the other East-Euro nations were glad to be “freed” by the soviets – so glad that they kept up guerillia resistance well into the 60’s [/rant].)

          Modern Russian propaganda is mostly to blame for such misinformation.
          Even Stalin was realistic about WW2, saying
          “You paid with your steel, we paid with our blood”.
          One may notice that in this quote he makes no claims about Russia winning WW2 alone.
          Even this statement is not accurate when talking about Russia tho, in percentages the Belorussians and the Ukrainians suffered far worse than the Russians, losing 25% (Belo) and 16,7% (Ukr) of their population in WW2. By comparision Russia “only” lost 12.7% of their population, making it the Soviet state with (percentually, not in absolute numbers) the 7-th most losses.

          Quite ironic, if we consider that Russia is constantly boasting about winning the war, while waging war against a country that actually suffered far worse in WW2.

        • The Soviets took the most hits, however over half of the weapons they used were provided by the western powers, even the famous T34 tank that everyone brags about was designed by the west and set up to be built in the Soviet Union as a cheap easy to manufacture Tank. We provided over half the raw materials for the Soviets to build and fight with and yes they did most of the fighting because we were land locked, but we both still ended up in Berlin about the same time while at the same time Fighting japan.

      • Russia won WW2. Get over youself. Furthermore, you weren’t even a sperm at the time. That said, there is a reason that the US Military switched over from the M1911 (45ACP) to the Beretta 92F (9mm).

        • The reason we changed over to 9mm from .45 was pure politics as was the choice of weapon. Now it seems we want to go back to it again. The.45 is very popular with the Spec Ops guys so it must be a quality round. I was taught carry what you can shoot straight but the bigger the better.
          I carry a Taurus .380 and own a 1911 for home defense. I shoot equally well with either, the .45 having of course better range. So I would advise carry what you feel comfortable shooting both in caliber and the firearm.

        • Mike, as you may already know, the two primary reasons many in the military favor the .45 ACP over 9mm are not relevant to most defensive handgun needs:

          1) Those ‘Special Ops’ guys like SEALs often have occasion to use suppressed handguns (like the Mk23 and other threaded barrel pistols) for covert CQB missions where relative silence is a critical tactical advantage, and the .45 ACP is already subsonic in it’s standard, full-power form. Therefore it is appropriate for use in suppressed weapons, whereas to get a 9mm sufficiently ‘quiet’ (not just the muzzle blast but the bullet itself as it travels to the target), it has to be loaded down to a subsonic load to avoid the ‘sonic boom’ (more like a sonic CRACK!) on the way to the target. These subsonic loads usually utilize a heavier 147gr projectile to make up for some of the energy lost in velocity. The 9mm was not designed to be loaded this way and the result is a marginally ineffective round at best.

          2) Ammo restrictions . With a few exemptions, the US military is legally limited (Hague Convention, etc) to fully jacketed (FMJ) ammo in combat against military forces of foreign states, and can’t use modern hollow point ammo in those battle environments. Counter-terrorism engagements against non-state forces, and defensive use by military base security forces is another matter under current military legal opinion, and hollow points are apparently approved in some cases. But anyway, the .45ACP is unquestionably more effective at close range in this FMJ bullet configuration that the average soldier is limited to.

          Now if the military was issuing the latest bonded hollow point ammo to ALL troops who carry 9mm sidearms , I suspect we would hear far fewer anecdotal battlefield tales about lightly clothed jihadis getting back up after being shot with 9mm rounds and/or continuing to attack until struck multiple times.

          Since civilian self defense is not bound by such restrictions (in most localities), we should not put too much stock in what caliber the military currently favors when choosing our own handguns.

        • Again, you are incorrect. The soviets maintained their neutrality with the Imperial Japanese. In fact, they even took some of our Pacific based bomber crews P.O.W. under auspices of that neutrality. That’s how they got a B29 to reverse engineer. The plane made an emergency landing in Soviet held territory.

          The Soviets, could barely take Finland and in fact got their butts handed to them in the Winter War by the Finns.

      • Me too! I like big bullets or big power! I love .357s, .41s, and .44s. I like .45s (both Colt and ACPs). If I have to stop them, I want them stopped. They can expire later, but stop they will. Besides, start reloading.. lots more fun.

      • My choice is also “.357” — .357 SiG, that is. 🙂

        Taurus PT957…with a complete PT940 slide assembly for a 2nd ammo choice.

    • Mentally, you are more likely to shoot your new gun better.

      To quote the oft repeated meme: “LoL, what?”

      Seriously, I’d love to hear the logic behind that. Why do you think a person is likely to be more accurate with a particular model gun that they’ve never fired before?

      • Would it be because they aren’t familiar with the trigger and it’s more of a “surprise” when it goes off?

        • The only thing I can think of that could make this true is MAYBE you think about it more and pay closer attention to your aim with a less familiar firearm.

    • “Following that logic, you’ll be switching to a .22lr next.”
      I don’t think so. You missed Tyler’s point #2 about 9mm being a serious defensive round.
      Both lab tests and real world data show that modern, high-speed, middle-weight, 9mm hollow points are right on the heals of the .40 and .45 in terms of terminal effectiveness.
      If you are a cop or soldier worried about barrier penetration then slower heavier bullets start making more sense but as far as the strapped civilian, I too have decided that 9mm is an ideal compromise between power, recoil, capacity, and cost.

  11. Funny, I went the other way… ditched the 9mm in favor of a .45. I just carry 2 extra mags for the .45 now instead of 1. Reloading also helped with the increased costs of shooting a .45.

    • I’m looking at adding a caliber to my collection (.40S&W most likely) and have priced my reloading options. Currently I reload 9mm with plated bullets for just under 15 cents a round and only do so when the Federal 20 cent rounds are not available at Wal-mart.

      Reloading .40 S&W with plated bullets which cost about 2 cents more than 9mm, and has almost the same powder and primer costs for a total of 17 cents each. Even bargain brass cased target rounds in .40S&W are at least 30 cents and often up to 35 cents. It won’t take long at all to pay for the new dies, shellplate and even a dedicated powder measure and toolhead!

      Reloading .45 ACP with plated bullets totals 19 to 20 cents per round.

      • Handloading (or inheriting a huge trust fund) is about the only way to afford adequate practice with a .45 ACP. Defensive 9mm loads have come a long way in terms of stopping power, and it’s hard to argue against higher magazine capacity and lower recoil.

        Practice-grade 9mm is so cheap it’s not even worth reloading, unless you need an excuse to get away from the wife and kids for hours at a time.

      • Alright, I own a slab-sided M1911, at 7 yards, which is what it is designed for, the area of your eyes and nose no longer exists when shooting a silowet. now granted yes they are big heavy slugs, yes it’s a two-pound handgun, but Hornaday Critical Duty will turn people almost inside out when fired from a .45, compared to Hornaday Critical duty from a PPK, results are similar but it’s clear that old sam colt had it figured out. Ball Vs. Ball, Hollow point Vs. Hollow Point, .45 wins as far as damage done to the target. now yes 9mm Hollowpoint out classes .45 ball, but .45 hollow point out classes 9mm hollowpoint. However, there is something I’d consider if you’re going for dirt cheap. German Sporting Guns/ American Tactical Imports (GSG/ATI) Firefly. it’s in .22 Lr. Saw one for $250 today. ammo is cheap in bulk, excessive force/ overkill charges are more easily avoided if you live in the communist bloc of the Northeastern US.

    • Well I hate to be a party pooper but I went back to .45 shoot just as well as my PPS 9 with high power rounds or my S&W Shield.40 my Glock 30 gen 4 is 10 +1 the PPS9 is 8 + 1 and S&W Shield is 7+1 groups are all very close but get hit by .45 once and your not going anywhere and as fore the 9 I’ve seen people take 3 shots 1 hit spine and still went 3 city blocks before stoping so you keep your 9s I’ll stay with my .45 only due to the fact my Ruger .44 mag revolver is all but impossible to conceal but very accurate. I’ll spend the extra for the knockdown power .

  12. Not only does cost factor in like a lot of people have mentioned, but it is worthwhile to explore the various gel tests ammo manufacturers have put together on their LE websites. You’ll find that most modern JHP ammunition be it 9, 40, or 45 have similar performance in bare gel, denim, and various barriers. Some such as 357 sig offer a little more in barrier and POA/POI, but tend to perform similarly in various ballistics testing. If you can arrange it, see if your local LE agency will let you tag along for “ballistics labs” that ammo salesmen set up.

    With all things being equal enough, the considerations of cost, capacity, and recoil might dictate your carry caliber rather than “the bigger the better.”

  13. I can think of one reason to carry a .45 over a 9mm. A good 9mm hollow point MIGHT expand to .45 inches. A .45 will never shrink. Being that gun fights are won by allowing the maximum amount of air into the body and the maximum amount of blood out, bigger holes are better.

    Assuming you can hit what you’re shooting at, bigger is generally better. I am as proficient with my Glock 30 or Para Ord P12.45 as I am with my “work” pistol the M9, so until I reach an age where I’m not capable of controlling a compact or subcompact .45 that’s what I’ll carry.

    • Your argument makes sense if you allow that magazine capacity stays the same. However, I think it kinda falls flat considering that 9mm pistols typically have higher mag capacities than .45 pistols. Ergo, more bullets, more holes. So while the .45 holes may be larger, depending on your skill, you can put more 9mm holes into a target.

      Now in socialist hell holes like California where there exists bans on mags with capacities larger than 10, I would absolutely opt for a .45 since I am limited in rounds count anyways. Luckily, I live in the great state of Nevada where no such bans exist, so I carry a G26 with 14 rounds of 9mm.

      • While edge cases exist, the situation where you are going to even use more than 1-2 rounds in a DGU are edge cases. One where you needed 14 is going to be an encounter for the books. Also, relying on “many holes” in your target assumes it’s going to be just standing there and not fire back during the same time. The first round fired is the most important – and needs to be the most potent it practically can.

        • It’s been a long time since I took a hydraulics class, so the formulas aren’t at the tip of my fingers, but one big hole generally allows more flow than two small ones. You can flow more water at the same pressure through a single 4″ hose than from two 3″ holes.

          When I carry my G30 I have 11 rounds in the pistol, and 20 more in my mag holder. When I carry my P12.45, it’s 12 in the pistol and 22 more in the mag holder. If I run into a situation I can’t handle with 31 rounds of .45, I’ve done something stupid.

          Human is exactly right, the first shot is the one that counts. I never feel under gunned when I carry my Charter Arms .44 Special.

          It is all a matter of what you can shoot effectively. If you can shoot 9mm effectively but not a .45 then 9mm is the way to go. I believe in shooting the largest round that you can shoot well, in my case, that’s .45.

        • Then why not just load 2 rounds in the mag at all times? I hear double-barreled flintlocks really pack a punch if people only need two shots, so people might consider one as well. Me? I want all the rounds I can carry within limits because I don’t; know how many I might ever need andI’d rather carry 12+ than be buried by 6.

      • Hi-capacity bullet count can be had in .45 ACP with a FNP Tactical / FNH, or any number of Para USA 1911’s. Since Remingtom picked up Para the quality is a bunch better or if you can find an old Canadian stamped Para you’re golden. My CCW is a Para P-10 Warthog. 10 rounds – deadly accurate at 20 yards, in a 3″ swaged barrel.

        A friend of mine got caught in a car-jacking with a Sig 9 mm, on an exit ramp in Atlanta. The perp outside his vehicle was safe as stones. Chris dumped 3 rounds of 9 mm into the side-window and 4 into the windshield from inside his SUV. Not a single round made it past the safety glass from the interior of his vehicle. Hi-dollar, super duper, personal defense 9mm rounds. If the car-jacker had hung around – Chris would have had to exit his vehicle to engage his opponent. That’s a problem. I’ll stick with my .45s and pay the difference.

        • If Chris was using some “Hi-dollar, super duper, personal defense” .45 rounds, he likely would have had the same result.

          Chris should investigate switching to one of the common 9mm rounds used by law enforcement, (Gold Dot, HST, SXT, etc.), that would have done far better on auto glass.

  14. 9mm with extra rounds is the way to go. more practice time, cheaper carrying cost, bullet performance improved with good ammo (ie, Hornady)

  15. Tyler:

    I carry both a Springfield Milspec and the same XD/m compact 9 that you now do.

    I keep the cost of ammo down by shooting my SiG-Sauer/GSG 1911-22. Unlike other 1911-22s the SIG/GSG has same feel as a the real thing. My range routine is to shoot a box 0f 45 and 250-300 rounds of 22lr.

    The other thing I would like to point out is that your M&P polymer does not handle recoil like the M1911. The weight and balance of the gun absorbs more energy and directs the recoil more in the horizontal plain. While I find the combat accuracy, which is the more relevant measure of accuracy for a carry pistol, to be the same I would rather go with the larger round. I don’t want into caliber wars but the FBI study justifying the Bureau’s choice of round is highly suspect from an analytical point of view. I would rather go with data backing up the military’s Joint Effectiveness Munitions Manual lethality index.

    While I am a 1911 fanboy I do appreciate modern pistol technology. I probably carry tmy XD/m more often then my 45 because it is my “doggie carry” piece because my employer — DoD — doesn’t allow me to carry to work. That’s where I spend the bulk of my time.

  16. I…I… did the same thing… *hangs head in shame*

    But seriously, I went to TDI last month and they converted me. They just made a very simple and very compelling argument: If you do what you’re supposed to do and put rounds through arteries and major organs, then the bad guy’s going down… FAST. It just made perfect sense, punch a hole in an aorta and it doesn’t matter if you do it with a .22 or a .50, they’re not long for this world.

    Anyway, I’m not much more accurate with my G17L than my G20 but I’m loads faster. That and the advantage in round count and price of ammo for practice means my 20 is now a range toy while the 17L gets schleped around.

  17. I agree entirely. Nowadays, 9mm can be $10 box of FMJ plinking ammo or ultra-premium SD rounds that get very close to the performance of .357 Mag. Nobody questions the effectiveness of that caliber, yet they will still frame an argument against 9×19 based on diameter alone. Of course, there are many factors to consider, but muzzle energy is the best clue we have as far as what to carry, I think. Is that a real thing? What factors do you consider when selecting a loading?

  18. I’ve been contemplating that very switch. Twenty years ago when I armed up, conventional wisdom was that .45acp was the only wise choice. Now it seems the only real advantage of a steel .45 with a two-finger grip is the ability to tell a jury in all sincerity that the LAST thing I wanted to do was fire…

  19. All pistols are a compromise between power and carryability. A lot of CCWers change calibers as often as they change their underwear, searching for that perfect combination when there is none. Don’t overthink the issue, relax, have confidence in the ability of any modern self-defense ammo to get the job done, know your own ability to delver rounds on target and enjoy carrying what you carry.

  20. I have different guns for different purposes, and hence different rounds for different purposes as some others have stated. Glock 19 or 23 for carry, Glock 21 for red dawn, financial collapse, zombies (sorry RF!) or other such scenarios. We use .40 at work. The downside is, of course, that it has the most violent recoil of the “big three (9mm, .40, .45).” the upside is extended magazine capacity, and the added bonus that if you can learn to manage .40, .45 seems soft shooting in comparison. It’s also nice to have the flexibility of having each ofvthe big three when you’re taking ammo off of dead bad guys in the nightmare scenarios listed above. Same reason why every AR guy needs a quality AK in his portfolio.

  21. As Dirty Harry said, ‘A man’s got to know his limitations’ and it sounds like many here have. Admittedly, I do grab the full-sized 9mm M&P on occasion in the summertime just for giggles.

    I reload so the cost of shooting the .45 ACP isn’t scaring me away from it. And if I was going to change from the .45, it’d be to the .357 Sig., not the 9mm.

    • I have a .357 SIG Sig P239. Great gun, but I bought a 9mm Bar-sto barrel of it and a 9mm return spring and shoot 9mm more out of it than .357 SIG because of cost. The .357 SIG was designed to be ballistically equivalent to .357 Magnum for 125-grain bullets fired from a 4″ barreled revolver. That’s real punch and you feel it and it affects your followup shot speed and accuracy. Because of that, I’ve moved to 9mm law enforcement rounds for EDC.

  22. Motivations for caliber-switching are clearly diverse. I prefer .45 because I find the muzzle blast and muzzle flash more pleasant than that produced by 9mm or .40S&W. I also find the recoil larger but less abrupt. I value my ears, which don’t much like the crack of supersonic rounds. 200 grain Speer Gold Dots leaving the G30 at about 1000 seems about right for me. Practice has value, but my experience tells me nobody can choose an aorta or vital organ to hit in an actual gunfight. In an assassination? That’s different, I suppose. I think frequent target shooting and competition have displaced actual incidents of defense as the key ingredient in caliber-choice decisions. I could be wrong, of course. Soon everyone will be carrying 5.7mm? Accurate, very unpleasant muzzle blast, no recoil.

    • Not until they make a smaller gun. I don’t know if you’ve ever handled it, but the FiveseveN’s grip is huge, especially front to back. It’s a pretty easy gun to shoot, but the ergonomics are weird.

  23. Why not just carry the 1911? I started carrying with a 9 for many of the same reasons and have within last six months moved to my colt commander after finding more consistent accuracy with practice. Don’t get me wrong I love my nine for plinking but I love my life with a 45. When all else fails I’d rather have a Steel frame to throw at the bad guy the the plastic fantastic! 😉

  24. Why not just carry the 1911? I started carrying with a 9 for many of the same reasons and have within last six months moved to my colt commander after finding more consistent accuracy with practice. Don’t get me wrong I love my nine for plinking but I love my life with a 45. When all else fails I’d rather have a Steel frame to throw at the bad guy the plastic fantastic! 😉

    • because all bullshit aside, the 1911 is a safe queen and not a gun i would trust my life with in a concealed carry. I dont hate the 1911 design, i just dont trust it with my life.

      • I have carried and used a 1911 in defensive situations and will take a cheap 1911 over a Hi Dollar Beretta M9 any day of the week.
        The 9mm defensive 124 and 147gr ends are great but the 1911 and .45acp are an unbeatable combo for reliability, accuracy and ease of use and maintenance.
        Just my opinion and experience.

  25. Well if you feel comfortable with a 9mm then great. I love the 45 ACP round. There are many reasons, but I am comfortable with it. I guess type of gun, weight, recoil etc all of which comes down to comfort. Confidence with your side arm is pretty important when it comes to those split second decisions. If you reload you can keep costs down, but in the end it is a personal decision.

  26. Ammunition costs with the .45 mainly revolve on the mass of lead, which casting (with old wheelweights) can mitigate. Most loads use about the same amount of propellant as .40s. Given the lower pressures, reuse of brass is probably safer with the .45 than .40. Hoop stress is a concern with the .40 and .45. KaBOOMs with the 9×19 are comparatively rare. The Five-seven is crazy expensive, as is the ammo.

    Here, in Canada, carrying handguns is largely a moot point for civilians, unless they work as CIT guards, or have a wilderness carry permit (or one of the very rare ATC Type-3s). With the former, most armoured car companies these days issue .40s (G22, M&P); with the latter, .44 magnums, or better are generally carried. City cops generally carry .40s, but a few police forces (Mounties, Toronto Metro Police), and border guards, rangers, etc. carry 9s. Of course, people also keep guns in their homes for self-defense, and the courts have upheld this…even against COPS:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Parasiris

  27. The biggest advantage I’ve found .45 has (and so does .40 for that matter) over 9mm:

    Bullet weight between plinking rounds and defense rounds. Unless you order online or handload, finding 147 (or even 124) grain practice ammo that isn’t bank-breaking is a tricky proposition at best. Closest I’ve found that can be *somewhat* consistently available in stores is Winchester White Box hollow points, but even that runs closer to .40 S&W FMJ prices.

    I’m the kind of person that would like my defense ammo to be as close as possible to my practice ammo, so I’ve broken down and started ordering online. For people who won’t or can’t, though, it’s a factor to consider.

    • I often buy online for my plinking ammo. Ammoengine.com shows no problems matching weight and speed for plinking and carry rounds ( http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/9mm ). After my local range noticed I never bought their ammo for practice and inquired as to the reason, they started carrying matching practice/carry pairs and even displayed them in the case together. They now carry Hornady steel case!

      • Oh wow that is amazing. Thanks for the link!

        (Still, 50% markup on FMJ 147 grain bullets /puke)

  28. Im so fricken excited that somebody is at least waking up!

    While popular with civilian shooters, 45 ACP is hardly popular anymore among serious folks i.e. law enforcement and military (especially special operations forces). In the bigger picture, shot placement and proper ammunition counts as the 9mm is more than a adequate man stopper.

    What really made a impression on me was seeing men in a particularly “special” unit in afghanistan carrying Glock 22’s and 19s. Out of the independent funding SOCOM gets, the assortment of weapons that they are free to pick and choose for a sidearm, they pick the venerable Glock in 40 and 9mm. Law enforcement agencies use the Glock 22 and 17.

    Given modern advances in 9mm, it is more than adequate for stopping a assailant. Ill take 15 rounds of 9mm versus even 10 in 45 ACP. Of course, questioning the holy alter that is 45 ACP results in beatings. Credible experts and professionals also question the wisdom of “45 ACP all the way!”.

    very logical Tyler 🙂

    • Dex, I have son who spent time in Afghanistan and a lot of people who could choose to used 1911s. The Marines just adopted a 1911 Colt in 45 (apparently giving up on the “badge of office” Beretta for something a little more authoritative) . 1911 never really went out of service and a Marine officer I know had an issue 1911A1 in Iraq, he like many thought the Beretta was junk in several ways. With military ball ammo the 9mm is pretty useless at STOPPING fights as has been repeatedly proven. Back to at least Sgt York stopping a 7 man bayonet charge with with his 1911. I have a friend who converses with an overseas “contractor” when he is in town. His comment is that you have to know how to run the local guns what ever they might be and a Browning HP especially since its pretty common. But if he can he prefers to take along the 1911 in 45. It works. Its not liable to ADs as the Glocks are and even with hardball it works. One other thing, the “modern” bullets that make the 9mm better? They make the 45 better too. My wife as a S&W 642 and a Shield in 9 and a Sig in 40. Me? I carry a 38 Super with handloads that really do make 1330 with a 124 gr in my Commander, a little better in 5″ and not bad muzzle flash. It shoots flatter than the 45 and since I am far more likely to shoot a 4 legged Coyote than a 2 legged one I like it, Its higher velocity than Hornady 357 Critical Duty in real world barrel lengths and gives good energy transfer. I also have a 1911 in 45. My son has 1911s including an M45. No 9mms. If I needed something small, I can conceal a 1911a1, I would probably use a Shield in 40 or something in 380. I see no point in having a 9 other than for cheap ammo and have thought of putting a 9mm barrel in one of my Supers for cheap practice. But I can load cast in 45 and be even cheaper and I have a lot of brass and a bullet mould. The problem with 9mm in small guns is lack of velocity. It never was any more than a high pressure rimless 38 Special and basically thats all it is today. A modern 4″ 8 shot 357 mag revolver with 125 gr bullets would be the best for stopping power but its harder to conceal than a 1911. I consider the handgun to be a weapon of last resort anyway. But its hard to conceal an AR15 under my shirt.

    • I.m not sure which branch and what year you were supposedly in the box with supposedly “special” units, but seriously?? Operators with G19?

      Quite amusing. I was in Baghdad for the invasion 03-04, Baqubah/Bootritz for the surge 06-07 at FOB Warhorse, and Trashcanistan for 10-11 in Uruzgan (look it up, as you are obviously not familiar with a legit Uncle Sam paid trip).

      “Special” units don’t have their own personal pick at all, try again. And being chair force with a 4-6 month “deployment” at Balad or Kandahar with nothing but desert queens with free chesticles thanks to the tax payer doesn’t mean you know a thing about being outside of the wire. Try again

      • Tried to add the legitimate dudes carried cocked and locked 1911’s. The Glock 19 went to the enemy ((IA and IP).

        Wake up bro. You know nothing of a real tour

  29. sorry, i posted too soon. To add on what i was saying before, 45 ACP is a very logical choice for concealed carry in states banning evil “assault” magazines i.e. magazines over 10 rounds. If i had to conceal carry in Cali or New York, I would go 45. 10 rounds of 45 and 9mm would result in me picking the 45. 10 rounds of 9mm traded for 7 or 8 in 45 is a compromise im willing to make.

  30. Tyler,

    Good post, good discussion. Rabbi may have been first to bring it up, but comparing same platform to same platform would be enlightening I think.

    When selecting a “larger” pistol for concealed carry and for carry while bowhunting hogs and bears I shot the M&P in regular and compact in 9mm and the XDm in compact in 9mm and 40. I felt muzzle flip was less in the XDm platform regardless of caliber. I went with the XDm in 40 for the gun’s intended purpose.

    I still want a full-sized M&P in 9mm for just shootin’.

    Happy shooting, dv

  31. I have an XD compact .45 (4.04″barrel) It’s about the same size as my 84 Cheetah only 1″ longer and using an inside the pants holster conceals and feels almost identical. The difference is the weight, but my belt carries most of that. I’ve got to admit, I love the .45. I own a retail business, and in the winter I get some BIG customers. 300+ lbs. Now cover that with some clothes and a leather coat and I question a 9 (forget the .380) to get it done with 1 trigger pull. My only concern is over penetration. At the range I concentrate on center mass hits and always stay aware of the background. I still carry the .380 from time to time but, say what you will, there’s a reason the 1911 is a legend and I think that is because it is a .45.

  32. I own 2 1911’s, one a compact(3.18″barrel) and the other a 5″ barrel. As I carry the compact daily I do trust my life with it. Simple to operate and reload. Has the stopping power I want and since I reload and shoot Hornady ammo I am not too worried in the long run about costs.
    Before someone says it I also own an EAA M88 9mm, an S&W Mod 67 .38spec, and a 1910 Mauser Pocket pistol in .25auto.
    All but the Mauser get carried. The 1911 daily and I alternate the Mod 67 and the M88 as back up guns. I Like all three calibers but have shot and carried 1911’s so long that I feel confident with them. FYI: the 45 is loaded w/ critical defense 185gr alternated w/tap fpd +p 200gr. 1 8rd in it and 2 10rd spares.
    The 9mm is all 124gr Hornady hp’s w/ 1 8rd and 2 spares.
    The .38 is tap fpd hp’s and 2 speed loaders.
    Shot placement is very critical but from prior exp 2 or 3 rds is all you might fire in a DGU.
    Every situation is different but is just an average I have read about.

  33. I’m the most accommodating guy around. As much as I loathe the .45 ACP, I’ll do you a favor and take it off you hands.

  34. Eh, im stickin with my 500 magnum for edc. Ammo is pricey, but if i ever do shoot someone with it, i think it will pretty much vaporize em.

  35. That’s why I carry a TT-33; it fits like it was designed with me in mind.

    Granted it’s a single stack, but it’s what best suits me.

    Carry what you can best use.

  36. It’s not just the caliber switch. I shot the same XDM compact and hit everything I pointed at. It was magical, much better than the Ruger, Colt, Glock or FNH that I also tried.

  37. I have come to the realization that most people who own a gun are most likely to die in the dark moment. accuracy, speed, power and the willingness to take a life.Most people will die before defending themselves. How do I know? Just look how this country is decade after decade going down hill, because no one is willing to defend it.Not counting soldiers.We have become a nation of people who say “its good enough”. 45 acp all day .Too expensive? reload.cant hit anything? practice or get a different firearm.

  38. I’m just tickled that more and more of my fellow man are carrying…. 9,45 or whatever floats your boat……

    Carry On

  39. Before I joined the Sheriff’s dept. I was a single action wheel gun shooter, mostly 357,41 mag. or 45 LC.
    The gun I was issued was a S&W 4506-1. I bought it when I left the Dept. and still carry it most times today. Why? Because I consistently shot marksmen or sharpshooter level in qualifying and I have a built in “muscle memory” with it. I can take it apart and reassemble in the dark. Simply put, I am comfortable with it. Its heavy and it only holds 8+1 but it will feed anything I put in it (Garbage disposal). I often get other 45 users ammo cheap or free because their high dollar 1911 clones won’t feed it. I also sometimes carry a snub 38 when its shorts and t-shirt weather.
    Carry what works for you. I am no ballistics guru but,I will say that in the academy you could tell who shot 45 instead of 9 or 40 because the metal silhouettes went down with one shot instead of 2 or 3. Still, I am thinking of getting an M&P shield 9 to try for pure concealment options. I certainly would not feel under gunned with a 9mm as a civilian.

  40. The FBI is going 9mm for the same reason our military did 30yrs ago. They have a very physically diverse population and not everyone can properly handle a .45. And at the time, the higher mag capacity of double stacked 9s was very attractive. So now they’ve drummed up test “proving” the 9s superiority and everyone jumps on board. But our military is shifting back to 45. Like the 5.56, smaller rounds with greater penetration fail to disrupt/stop an attack until numerous holes are put in the target. And with the introduction of double stack 1911s, the 9s capacity advantage is gone. My Para holds 15, 21 with the extended mag. My EDC Taurus holds 11. Most popular 9 (LC9, Shield, etc) only hold 6-8.

    I’ve seen first hand what a 380, 9 and 45 hollow point will do to flesh and bone in having to put down terminally ill / injured 1000lb animals. The 380 will do the job with little mess. The 9 creates a bit more blood flow. The 45 oozes blood, brains and pushes the animal back on its hindside. From an owners veiw, the 45 is too horrific to use again. 380 is enough for the above task.

    Penetration kills, if you get enough holes in the target. Impact disrupts the attack and devastates the target. I will stick to my 45s until i can no longer reliably put rounds on target.

    But ymmv.

  41. My preference , is a 17hmr hollow point… Close range , plenty of penetration and internal damage is off the scale… Ultra lite , 3 to 5 well placed rounds , is not difficult!

  42. Bullet placement is king. Of course, it’s also a fantasy. Just about every defensive and offensive account shows that the rounds are going to hit non-IDLH areas, and that there will be a LOT of rounds through the air. So the toss up is really going to be between bullet damage in non-lethal areas, and having a lot of extra rounds to both miss and put even more rounds into non-lethal areas.

    Kalroy

  43. For how unnervingly loud is that .45 in the lane next to me at the range, I might as well carry an RPG. Even with soft ear plugs and big muffs, I still get tinnitus and headaches after enduring the cannon fire next door. Since I don’t expect a .45 to sound that much softer standing behind it than next to it, here’s a different reason why someone like myself would opt not to use a .45 – even if the ammo were free.

    In a home defense scenario, it would be nice to be able to hear and think. Firing just one .45 indoors (w/o any ear protection, of course) would be enough to induce hearing loss, headaches, and a smidgen of shell shock that – even if momentary – puts me at a major disadvantage if there is more than one attacker, or if I didn’t get the placement I wanted on the first shot and I’m going to have to follow it up with a better-placed shots.

    At 3ft., I can double-tap inside a 1″ bull with a split time of 0.4 second using 147gr. 9mm Federal Hydra-shoks. If two aren’t enough, there are 14 rounds behind it. I’ll gladly trade two of those (with the lower recoil, flip, and ‘boom’) for one “badass” 230 gr. .45ACP whatever.

    Recoil and noise anticipation is not a problem when I’m using 9’s

  44. Good discussion!
    One thing missed in the ‘test,’ is many defensive shootings happen at night. The .45ACP, regardless of load, has much less muzzle flash than an effective 9MM…or .49..or .357Sig….

    Ruining your night vision is a causation to fail.

    However, there are many positives to the 9MM with modern loads as accurately described. I’m ‘married to my .45s though. From my excellent first gen G21 down to my XDs….I reload and new ball is $17/50rnds locally.

    If I were a younger fellow, I’d go 9MM….

  45. I am sorry but if you can’t hit what you are aiming at with your .45ACP you have too limp a wrist and need to do some weight training to work it up. My kimber is dead on and way more accurate than my S&W M&P in .40 or my wife’s M&P in 9mm. The only valid point for me is the number of rounds you can carry in the mag since my Kimber can’t carry but half the rounds that my M&P can carry. If I wanted that much or thought I might get into a long standoff (LOL yeah right), then I might get an F&N .45 tactical but seriously, you are likely going to use your pistol at your attacker at less than 10′ and only 3 or 4 rounds, not a standoff with a group of gunman. You get into something like that you better have a rifle. After all a pistol is only to be used to help you get back to a rifle… not for combat duration.

    • “If you can’t shoot a .45, get something else.”

      He did exactly what you suggested, and yet you’re screaming “fail!”?

      Okay then.

  46. I DO NOT LIKE how the shooter in the video POINTS THE WEAPON AT THE CAMERA. Since the camera remained still for the entire demonstration, I’ll assume that there was no cameraperson in the line of fire.

    But a very bad habit to pick up because there is no reason to point a loaded firearm anywhere but downrange if it isn’t pointing toward the ground. Even pointing it towards the sky is inadvisable, as there are plenty of deaths & injuries on the books from idiots coming out of their East LA homes at odd times to celebrate their favorite soccer teams’ victories, as well as at the stroke of midnight on New Years, the Day of the Dead, etc. Lots of “top of the head” penetrating wounds.

    Then there are the mid-easterners who love to shoot AKs at wedding ceremonies. They DANCE & twirl the weapons around. I saw one idiot [literally] shoot his ass off in one YT movie last week on TTAG’s Negligent Discharge post. I only [figuratively] laughed my ass off, which wasn’t at all painful.

  47. Right on buddy. There will always be some cement head who says it has to start with a 4 to be functional, but we all need to be reminded from time to time: you should only shoot what you can shoot. Keep it up.

  48. I’ve shot over 1000 of 9 and .45 the last few years and as far as penetration is concerned, the heavier .45 will penetrate more than a 9 on anything. The heavier .45 will go through auto body metal and still have a lot of power where the 9 does poorly.

    • I have shot the 9 side by side to my. 45 any for shear destructive power the 9mm isn’t even close. My 9 has similar penetration in soft things but has a narrow channel in all things. My. 45 on the other hand tears things gapping holes or splinters the hard structures like wood. When it comes down to a possible poor hit with a 9mm vs a .45 (say on a limb), I will take the. 45 hands down. You might get your kill off with a well placed shot, but if you hit poorly, it is less likely to bring the assault to a screaching halt.

  49. As long as you can put rounds on target do it. Having shot my Bersa Thunder more than any gun I own I can manipulate it in the dark (full of snap caps) as well as land hits on paper were I intend. That being said for the distances in my house my moderate practice with my G41 in 45 ACP that resided in my nightstand has my skill set adequately honed. …and the Bersa is one lock away from my shooting hand if I needed it.

  50. I still shoot my xd-45 better than my glock 23 or my m&p 9mm. I believe the XD is a better target pistol, although I can understand cost my 45 gets less love these days

  51. took the g30 gen 4 and the g19 gen 4 to the out door range.it was about 30 degrees. Did some shooting with and without gloves. Sold the 30 for a 26. Lets face it the best gun in 45 is a 1911. the 21 is a boat. The 30 and 36 will pinch you.You have to think harder with a 45. 45 is fun and satisfying to shoot though.

  52. Modern (‘specially the last decade) design of pistols, propellants and projectiles (I’m bettin’ the word Computer belongs next to Design in a lot of cases) have made the performance of most “defensive purpose” handgun cartridges pretty much All That They Can Be these days. I still like my 1911 (with a Race Gun mod’ or 3) for bedside company, but EDC is a compact, double column 9 with reliable JHPs. Just an old codgers opinion.

  53. Sorry, its not the caliber, but the platform which matters most when handling. For example, I cannot shoot a Walther PPK very well, but can handle other 380s just fine. The reason being is that I have large hands and the shape of the grip doesn’t fit me. Didn’t have one thing to do with the caliber.

    The caliber wars will continue ad nauseum but the Thompson-LaGaarde tests are still relevant with non expanding bullets even today.

  54. What a bunch of little girls. My XDs is just as concealable as your 9mm doll gun. Kidding aside, carry what you are comfortably with and learn to reload. It really cut down on my .45 spending. Some can’t handle the .45 and I get it but I’d be more than happy to make some offers on leftover rounds you may have.

  55. It’s the gun not cal I have a few .22lr a .22mag aPPS 9 A S&W SHIELD .40 A G 30 .45 AND A RUGER SUPER BLACKHAWK .44MAG AND MY FAV.IS THE .44 MAG. VERY EXPENSIVE TO PRACTICE WITH BUT SUPER TIGHT GROUPS AT ANY DISTANCE BUT I CARRY MY .45 MOST OF THE TIME AND NOT ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IT AND THE .9 MM IS NOTHING BUT TAKEDOWN POWER THE .45 WINS EVERY TIME . SO SHOOT WHATEVER YOU CAN FEEL CONFIDENT WITH BECAUSE IT’S ALL ABOUT PUTTING THOSE ROUNDS WHERE THEY COUNT NOT HOW MUCH IT COST

  56. the controversy surrounding the 9 and the .45 is Political in Nature, big wig Politicians wanted jobs for their state and the zeros needed a cushy job when they retired! No doubt there is some validity to all the thought comments between these, two. It does not matter what you use as long as you put two in the chest and 1 in either eye,
    A 9 with beaucoup bullets usually makes my self rely on the total amount of bullets instead of accuracy and it will take more bullets to accomplish a task!
    when in a fire fight, the Adrenalin is pumping pretty strong, an you will revert to trained motor skills! a lot of bullets down range mean more possible Liability! It seems as If the Army SNAFU, has gone around full tilt, back in the Muslim war of the Philippines the Army went with American Nines (.38) actual .36 and found them in effectual so opted for the old .45 colts which in turn led to the .45 Semi-auto!
    Personally I know for a fact 9’s were ineffectual, got a .45 no more problem! then again it boils down too personnel preference!

  57. The XDm is just a more mechanically accurate firearm. It has nothing to do with caliber. The writer of this article is a dimwit.

  58. I’ve carried a “crappy” 5 shot Charter Arms .38 Undercover loaded with the “crappy” golden saber” ammo for the last 20 years. I used to carry a speedloader in my pocket bringing my round count to “10” after about 5 years I quit carring it. (the speedloader) I carry a firearm to protect MYSELF and the general area around me not assualt the beaches at Normandy. Iam not SWAT,Law enforcemnent or Rambo and I hate to tell yall you arn’t either. So forget all that stupid shit thinking your Magic Mike and your gonna save the president. You arn’t, more than likely if you do find yourself in a “situation” one bullet barney(who want’s to be Magic Mike as well) is going to gun you down thinking YOUR the “bad guy”. C’mon folks -reality- check into it.

    But it’s your RIGHT to carry as much ammo and firearms as you think you need. God Bless America!!!

    • I don’t like the idea of running out of ammo. Unless its on a 18″ handle a handgun makes a poor club. Given that the people you might have to shoot could easily absorb 5 rounds of ANY 38 special short of a head shot and still shoot or stab you? You might want to rethink. A friend of mine used to carry a J frame Smith in 38 Sp. Until he realized that the scary people run in packs and he was usually alone. He switched to a 1911. A 5 shot 38 Sp is good for 2.5 double taps and given the ballistics this is just not enough. Even with 90% one shot stops you have 10% chance of getting hurt or killed. So one must STOP them. Me? I carry a 38 Super (124 grain at 1330-1350) with at least one extra magazine. Most street criminals run away. But if you happen to run into your basic Islamist (or two) with an AK you might need more ammo. They don’t care if they die and will keep coming till stopped. I have thought about getting my 45 ACP out of the safe and trying some of Double Taps HV 230 gr 45 ACP but I wonder about over penetration. One other thing. You cannot plan for what the enemy PLANS to do you must plan for his CAPABILITY. Since we have let hordes of illegals in in recent years and at least SOME are from the middle east. We need to be watchful at the mall and Wally World.

  59. You shoot the XD better because the triggers in M&Ps are garbage. Put an XD .45 up against that one in 9mm and you’ll find out which cartridge you shoot better. It could be either one, you never know.

  60. The .45 ACP will always be a contender in either self-defense or law enforcement. The whole purpose of the .45 is to push a big ball of lead through the air and hit like a freight train. The 9mm will NEVER fill that role even with ++P rounds.

    Besides, what self-respecting “shamus” would be without his .45?

  61. I had gone back to 9mm & .40 for duty carry until the other night. CD ammo made neat holes in the guyd car but stopped before penetration. My .357mag back-up got it done, but the .45 is going back on the hip for monthly forays back to street wanna make sure the next S.O.B. that tries to run me down at least feels it. If the 9 had penetrated would have been a dead guy

  62. I have been carrying a .45 ACP 1911 since 1973 – started carrying one as a Military Policeman. The .9mm is a subcaliber and crappy round – always has been we switched to the Model .92 Mafia (Berretta pistol)(what a piece of junk)… Do you think it may be the shooter? I do.. I possess a HR 218 pemit and I carry a Colt Defender 3 inch barrel .45ACP I qualify (active Inservice qualification) every year. I have to in order to maintain the permit. I score in the high 90’s to 100% day and night. If you can shoot you can shoot… if not – practice – signed NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, North Caroliana CCW Instructor… Have you ever shot someone with a .45ACP? I have – it works….

  63. Then again – the 2nd Amendment is great – you can shoot what you choose – the key is to keep shooting!!!!

  64. You know what they say…..If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. If you ever find yourself in a split second life and death situation you’ll be wishing you had that .45 instead of that nine. I know what I speak of.

  65. Here we go again 9 vs .45! which is better? both have their lovers and haters! A better approach might be find out what you shoot better take, 7 bullets and place in magazine, load, put one in chamber, holster some how increase you heart rate, fire at targets, repeat with other caliber! in this case it would probably be a .22! Personally know of failure to incapacitate with both calibers, which proves the saying that shot placement is critical, Two in the chest and one in the head pretty much explain it all, however in a defensive situation a person may or may not hit their target that many times, why do you think that LEO’S shoot so much, its because they can, not because they are accurate! my opinion big bullets make big holes!

  66. I was until recently an IPSC competitor shooting a 45ACP. For a defense gun, I picked up a, then new, Glock 17. Fired 25 quick double-tap headshots at the target’s cranial triangle. Put all of them between the target’s nose and right eye. I’ve carried a G17 daily ever since. 20 years without a stove pipe or other malfunction. Fire 50 rounds a month and clean. Still as accurate and functional that day 1. Shows wear around the muzzle. I should probably replace the springs soon.

  67. Well, .22lr is a lot cheaper than 9mm so do we go there next…? BTW, .380 ammo prices nix its once ‘favorable’ choice for CCW…?

    Just kidding as I agree with your findings and it’s axatcly what I did several years ago. Costs is a huge factor in that equation but, moreover, advancements in ammo technology has closed a once (arguably) significant gap.

    Bottom line is that the variable of “size” will forever remain constant and one of the most discussed subjects in the firearms industry be it long or hand guns…

  68. My results do vary from yours. I shoot better with my XDS in .45acp than I do with my M&P Shield in 9mm. I have several guns suitable for concealed carry but the XDS is my favorite for concealability, accuracy, and reliable knock-down power. It’s a little bit heavier than the M&P Shield, but it is comfortable to carry in my Crossbreed IWB holster.

  69. Well, over 14 years in the security field (not Paul Blart Mall Cop, but REAL security work were we dealt with real danger), I carried a few different weapons, usually based on a combo of what I can afford, what the licensing agencies allowed, etc. My old S&W auto in 9mm put rounds were I wanted them, and had plenty of them. A Ruger 9 wasn’t impressive at all, it barely passed the 70% accuracy requirement the licensing agency required. Off duty, I carried a 1911 in 45ACP for over a decade. The truly important thing, I found, is that if you can reliably hit your target, the caliber is largely irrelevant. Remember the average civilian, even a licensed security professional, is not likely to deal with military styled combat. The idea is not “shoot to kill,” but “Shoot to incapacitate.” FEW people out there take ANY gunshot wound in stride, and unless they are drugged up or psychotic, tend to immediately stop their aggression with any gunshot wound.

    These days, having no more modern firearms, I regularly carry a replica of the revered Colt 1858. Sure, it is large, noisy, and requires enormous attention to detail wen loading, but guess what? Like any firearm, it does it’s job: putting rounds into the desired target. In a defensive situation, the real goal is to drastically alter the behavior of the assailant. Rest assured, .451 inches of lead propelled by 30 grains of Pyrodex drastically alters the behavior of any creature, two or four legged, on impact.

    Why not carry a more modern, allegedly safer, and certainly more expensive weapon? I am a humble farmer, now, who doesn’t have the $300 or more for it, as well as the 12 to 25 bucks a box for 50 rounds of ammo. I get practice on my pistolsaurus rex for a mere 12 CENTS per shot, and consistently place five rounds into one ragged hole at typical “defense” range of ten yards or less. I can take white tail deer down with one shot at 50 yards, head shoot rabbits out to 25 yards, and if the need ever arises, hauling an 8 inch barreled, blue steel and brass cannon from under one’s coat can “drastically alter the behavior of the assailant” without ever firing a shot. Experience showed me decades ago that the typical criminal, upon seeing a long barreled pistol held by a calm defender, just “knows” that the said defender is NOT going to miss.

    Properly and safely loaded, I have five rounds of .415 diameter, 136 grain lead at my immediate disposal, and if I need more than ONE, then the issue is not my gun or ammo – it is my stupidity at letting myself get caught up in something I should not be. It’s a good weapon, has a variety of applications, and cost me less than 300 dollars to start (gun, ammo, holster combined).

    MOST IMPORTANTLY, this gun is what I, personally, can afford, shoot well, carry/shoot comfortably, and it works. Everything else is just gravy.

    • Sorry but Colt never made an 1858. Remington did… I carried a 1860 Colt daily for a couple of years. Actually a pretty good gun fighting gun within its limitations. But it needs to be shot at least every other day to assure the loads are good, cleaned and reloaded. Bill Hickok shot his C&B revolvers every morning shooting one, cleaning it, reloading then repeating with the other. Shooting to incapacitate is the same as shooting to kill. Its the only way to reliably incapacitate someone. There is no place, other than the foot or hand, that you can shoot someone and not have a high risk of killing them. If you don’t hurt them bad enough to cause loss of consciousness they can still kill you. Shooting to wound is Hollywood stuff. Anywhere in the body and any solid hit above the top of the shin bone or above the elbow can be fatal. Get a major artery and they likely will not make the hospital. Shooting in the foot or hand will not incapacitate anyone. And in civilian life if one has valid REASON to use deadly force they are better off making SURE the perp is dead. Only one story, no civil lawsuits by the perp.

  70. That was a typo, it is a 1851, not 1858. And yes, the translation of shoot to incapacitate to shoot to kill is valid. However, NEVER let the lawyers hear that.

    I shoot it weekly to keep in practice, as well as to keep the loads fresh, though it can sit for a month or more if I keep it dry and out of higher humidity.

    The mentions several folk make on here in regard to cost of practice ammo? Yes, cost is a factor for everything we do anymore, but we have to ask ourselves, is a little more money per box of bullets such a terrible price to pay, when NOT being in practice can cost a lot more? If one finds they cannot hit their attacker the hard way, they lose everything. What if they miss once, twice, or more, THEN manage to hit the perp? Those bullets go somewhere, and the shooter is liable in most cases. A former coworker of mine found that out the hard way when his first three shots missed the perp, one hitting a bystander and two hitting a business across the street. He was cleared, legally, it was judged self defense. He then had to pay several thousands of dollars for property damage, and got sued for million for the gunshot wound to the bystander. In the end, he is paying nearly 3 thousand dollars a month for the next couple decades to cover that.

    So, my statements in my original post stand firm. I can afford what I have, it works, and I am confident with it.

    That was the whole point, just like the author’s point in why he changed his caliber/gun preference.

  71. I can not believe the acceptance of the 9mm. Great gun if you can shoot anything else. Being a police officer I can tell you this. If you shoot somebody 15 times they are going to lock you up and throw away the key. If you shoot them 8 you might get away with it.

  72. Funny thing is I just left a pocket revolver for the M&P .45 compact. So I’m really stepping up my game. When I read articles like this I smile because the younger generation try’s to hide behind the real reasons why they like the 9mm.

    As far as Springfield Armory goes I tried to warm up to that compact XDs .45 but that safety recall scared me away. That wasn’t a recall for a bad smell coming out of your cars ac. And then when I see made in Croatia stamped on it I wonder if they are using cheap Muslim labor over there. Phony bast–d’s ! Trying to pimp the name as if was the company of old. A handful of Reese family members making a fortune and that’s it.

    Screw that, how that gun ever gets out of the factory in the first place tells me all I need to know about Springfield Armory. Enjoy yourselves ‘kiddies’.

  73. Old post… I shoot my steel framed 45’s (1911) better and faster than my old 9’s, but I’m still making the switch to a CZ 75 compact for more firepower and a slightly more reliable platform. Will still shoot 45 in competition, as it’s more fun to shoot, but 9 does better on size and weight.

  74. YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT GUNS ….my FN .45 ACP has a mag capacity of 15 rds. plus one more in the pipe = 16 rds.. It also came with two 14 rd. mags from the factory. I immediately bought two more 15 rd. factory mags. I am 6 ft. 1 in. tall @250 lbs. with a 52 in. chest. I can easily carry on my CWP (SC)in my UNCLE MIKES PRO vertical rig without printing. I also have two of the Pro Pack rigs from FN. I can have all 5 mags on board if I am traveling at night or in rough areas. That is 74 rds….not to mention my BERSA Thunder .380 PLUS that is a 13 rd. jewel that I have 3 mags in tow for a BUG. I toss my AR FRANKENSTEIN RIFLE and STOEGER 20 gauge in the trunk of my 20 yr. old SATURN and some nights get my wife on board. She carries two Charter Arms 22 mags in her $400( I stuck my foot in my mouth and offered to buy it for her if she got her CWP before I saw the price tag) gun purse and has her own .410 double barrel STOEGER for cruising shotgun. Our little Doxie rides in the lookout seat in back.
    My .45 was built here in Columbia, SC at the FN plant. I worked there as an electrical contractor and got to see the technicians there building the handguns and fine long guns our military uses. They provide more than 70 % of the small arms our military uses so that is good enough for me. I am 61 yr. old and my wife is 60. Having slower reflexes we practice often and try to keep our hand/eye coordination in good form as best we can.We have to have firearms we can depend on. That is why I carry the FN .45. I worked armed security for 26 yrs. PT. and FT.. I carried a BROWNING HI POWER much of that time, It never failed me. I saw the FN as the natural progression from that weapon although the HP is still around. If you ever tried the FN .45 ACPs I believe you would change your handgun theories.

  75. The story goes back to the days of the Phillipines. It was noted that 38 special wouldn’t stop troops that had wrapped their bodies with burlap and wire. Then the 45 acp was developed in 1911 to apply enough stopping or knock down power.. Today 38 cal. is still .357 and the 38 special is still 158 gr. The 9mm is still .357 diameter bullet and is still just a 38 even though metric police renamed it 9mm,

    • Actually it was the 38 Colt cartridge and the bullet was under 150 grains in the military load. It was a dismal stopper as most non expanding bullets in this diameter range are from a handgun. This is all well documented in the Thompson/LaGarde tests where even with flat point bullets the 9mm was less effective than even the 450 Ely.

  76. carry what you practice with. Me, the EB Kobra carry is everything I want in an EDC. It’s familiar with it, I’m reasonably accurate (6″ circle @ 10′ – 6:8 consistently), and as an elder lady I can purse or body carry as suits me.

    9mm is fine as long as you are prepared. BYW: if I ever choose another EDC, it’ll be a 380.

  77. I’ve been a competitor with a .45 1911 for 35 years, but for carry and home defense, I rely on compact 9mms.(for all the reasons in the article and then some)
    Interviewed medical examiners cannot distinguish between wound tracts of either round.

    • But wound tracts do not stopping power make. That the 45 is superior with hard ball indicates that its superior with ammo such as the Critical Duty or other modern expanding bullets. Note that the Critical Duty 45 ACP is a HV load and the Critical Duty 9mm is not. The ONLY thing that the 9mm gains stopping power from is velocity and expanding bullets. In short barreled compacts this is compromised to a greater or lessor extent. If the person MUST have a smaller handgun for CCW, as my wife does, the compact 9 with good ammo is a good choice. But the 45 ACP with equal ammo will transmit more energy. Virtually all 45 ACP hollow points run past .700 diameter when fired through calibrated gel with denim, for expand past .750″ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqziWTq7X1c

  78. I shoot better with my 1911 .45 because I practice with it a lot more than any of my smaller guns. It also fits my hand better than any other handgun I’ve ever put in my hand.

  79. So you shoot a 9 better than a 45.

    I guess next you will trade the 9 in for a 22LR, because what is easier to shoot and more accurate than a baby plinker?

  80. Another thread about 9mm vs 45ACP. This is about as bad as…
    “What came first, the chicken or the egg?”
    Who cares? What’s for breakfast?

  81. It is 2015, so surely the lessons learned in the Philipines during the Spanish American war. have expired due to the statute of limitations, I was a young Marine in Vietnam, and I soon learned that most Viet Cong that I would see were just a flash and not stapled to a target board. Getting off just 1 some what good shot was about all you could hope for. But that wasn’t so bad because we still were carrying M 14’s when I came home. Along came the M-16’s and they were nice and light (current progress has even ruined that) lots of concern came up about reliability and stopping power. During my tour these subjects were never even discussed about our M14’s and 1911’s. Think about this– how much real progress has really been made in fire arms,especially in the ones that civilians buy every few years because of procevied improvments?

  82. The 1911 is now a mission specific tool. It is not a Polymer, it is not compact, and standard ammunition is not fast either. But this device can be loaded with faster ammunition that will bring energy levels to meet any competitor leaving the weight as a nostalgic issue as the design does not lend its self to keeping up with the Polymer crowd.

  83. Just because the rounds don’t hit doesn’t _necessarily_ mean it does no good.

    .45 ACP will scare away anyone with brains, and yes, I understand that excludes most bad guys.

    A friend of mine sat behind a .50 mounted on a vehicle in Vietnam. He said all he had to do was fire off a few rounds and the VC would high tail it. They wanted no part of the .50

    That said, carry what you are comfortable and competent to shoot.

  84. Just because the rounds don’t hit doesn’t _necessarily_ mean it does no good.

    .45 ACP will scare away anyone with brains, and yes, I understand that excludes most bad guys.

    A friend of mine sat behind a .50 mounted on a vehicle in Vietnam. He said all he had to do was fire off a few rounds and the VC would high tail it. They wanted no part of the .50

    That said, carry what you are comfortable and competent to shoot.

  85. Stupid comparison. I can’t shoot a barn door with S&W and Glocks. My XD 4 inch rules, it fits my hands whereas the other puny grips won’t. I prefer a .40 cal ballistically over the .45 or 9mm.

  86. 9mm can yield performance on par with 45 ACP in gelatin, under ideal circumstances.

    But I’ve never been in a gunfight with gelatin. Humans have bones and engage at strange angles. I’ve only been in one gunfight. A guy ran out a doorway, shot 6 rounds into the ground at my feet, and threw his gun down when I drew mine. I never got a shot off. I arrested him. That’s my job.

    It turns out he was planning to shoot a guy he’d been fist-fighting (why I was dispatched), ran out, saw me, and did a panic half-full ghetto mag dump at me. I got lucky. And no, cops don’t normally respond to fist fights with their weapon at the ready.

    At any rate, here is how the real world favors 45 ACP. The 45 ACP has momentum. It’ll crack bone versus deflect, especially at less than optimal engagement angles.

    Major deciding factors take place during the initial bullet exchange, so I want the harder hitting 45 ACP when rounds 1,2 & 3 land on target. This negates the 17 versus 13 round magazine argument.

    At close range, sight acquisition, and trigger control are non issues. At 3 or 7 yards, you can hammer rounds into a target as accurately & quickly with a 45 ACP as with a 9mm.

    Conversely, at longer ranges, like 25 yards, both 45 ACP and 9mm will take the same amount of time to operate the trigger without disrupting the sight picture (for a given weapon platform). This renders the follow-up shot argument moot.

    The only relevant argument in favor of 9mm, is expense. 9mm is cheaper, because it requires less raw materials to manufacture. 45 ACP outperforms 9mm, especially when conditions are less ideal than a frontal shot on jello. 45 ACP defense rounds generally have 15-20% more energy than 9mm l, along with the bigger diameter and greater mass.

    I use the 45 ACP in my duty guns. 9mm has a place too, but that place is in my smallest subcompacts, where gun designs can really exploit it’s small package and fit on my ankle or in my pocket.

  87. As a small framed woman, I choose to carry the XDs. 45ACP…The very first gun that I had ever fired was thus. I find it hard to believe that a woman can accurately fire within a standard handgun target her first time on the range in a decent 3 to 4 inch cluster more accurately and easily than a man of greater stature and evidenot strength given the seemingly lack of movement from the recoil. You are also using a different manufacturer’s gun, that in and of itself makes your point moot. I can more accurately fire my xds with with a 185 grain Hornady Hollow Point, than I can a 1911 Para Ordinance.
    Scientifically, you have no constant variable in which to compare your findings. Humans are not infallible and therefore cannot be considered a valid constant unless the very same test is run with 100+ other people of varying size and skill level in order to accurately graph similarities and/or differences in test results.
    I have a hard time respecting someone who seems to care very little about the fact that he is posting grossly inaccurate information on a publicly accessible site that I found while searching for the best source for my ammunition. I seriously hope that you consider the ramifications of your actions before you do more damage to a highly volatile subject matter within our country.
    Legal carry of handguns in other countries in the world are few and far between. I consider it a blessing and a privilege to have been born a citizen of this country and would like to maintain said freedom.
    I apologize for my being so blunt, but it isn’t only the ignorance of those who are anti-gun, but the propagation of ignorance among those who are themselves as informed, safe, responsible gun owners.
    I’ve only carried for 4 years, but can tell you that I don’t believe that I could respect someone who would make grossly inaccurate statements that…should they be made public among a widely read publication…could possibly limit the caliber and ammunition that, as American citizens, we rightfully carry. It’s bad enough that we are limited in the automation (or lack there of) of our guns.
    Please…do us all a favor…go to your local gunsmith and test fire a Springfield XDs. 45 in comparison to the 9mm you seem to prefer.
    As a woman, I don’t want to have to turn a large man into proverbial Swiss cheese in order to protect myselfrom and those in love.
    My high velocity rounds may be considered a bit much by some, but I feel that over kill would be emptying all 15 roads I carry between my always chambered round, and 2 extended magazines, each with 7 rounds per.

  88. i shoot 1911’s in 45, and Xdm 3.8 compact 45, they are the best guns to shoot the 45acp. my wife is able being a petite woman is capable of shooting both as well, though she shoots the Xdm more accurately. why the military stepped away from the 45 is beyond me, however it is refreshing to see that they are entertaining going back to it. the 9mm is a garbage round, i’m sorry, but you don’t hear of any gangsta rappers surviving 45 cal shootings, you do hear about many surviving multiple 9mm shots.

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