Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day: How Not to Win an Argument Edition

I take a back seat to no man in my desire to see President Obama replaced with a leader who will respect our constitutional rights. I think Obama is a disaster not because of the man, but because of his policies. There are many MANY principled arguments to make against President Obama’s re-election and I make them. I’m politically conservative – it’s what I do. The image above is not a principled argument. It’s just plain ignorant. Free country and all that, and I wouldn’t ever want this man to have his right to be an incandescent dolt rescinded under pain of law. But I will indeed exercise my right to note that he is persuading no one by being an ass. Shame on him.

comments

  1. avatar pcrh says:

    Why propagate the image? Shame on TTAG.

    1. avatar Blinky Pete says:

      Yeah, it’ll really confuse people that can’t accept the idea that there are idiots on both sides of every argument. Shame on no one but the wearer of this racist crap.

      1. avatar pcrh says:

        When you see something stupid and offensive, it makes perfect sense to ensure that thousands of other people see it too… It’s like giving the fool a stage and a mic.

        1. avatar Blinky Pete says:

          I have faith that good people will continue to be good regardless of idiotic stimulus, and stupid people will continue will continue do stupid things regardless of the lack of the same.

        2. avatar Buuurr says:

          Gimme a break people. The guy is an ass. If you can’t gather that by his T-shirt it’s beyond you…

        3. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          OK, all the commenters agree with passion that the guy is an ass. You are the most “liberal” thinking gun guys I’ve ever met.

          The real question is how common is the ass’s thinking. I’d say it’s pretty common. Most people who hate Obama do so from the gut, not from the lofty rational place of Tim McNabb.

          The NRA convention is full of racist Obama-haters, only most of them have the discretion to keep it a dark secret, unlike the guy pictured.

        4. avatar Robert Farago says:

          Give me a question to ask conventioneers about race. I’ll ask twenty. Then let’s talk about your conclusions. Yup, it’s the old facts based on data and opinions based on facts thing. Care to dance?

        5. avatar jkp says:

          This won’t be a rigorous study, of course. Still, in the interest of science, I’d kinda be curious to see how people answer these questions:

          “Despite his claims to the contrary, I believe that President Obama is a Muslim.”

          (1) Strongly disagree
          (2) somewhat disagree
          (3) Not sure
          (4) somewhat agree
          (5) strongly agree

          “While in office, President Obama has put the interests of African Americans ahead of other American ethnic groups.”

          (1) Strongly disagree
          (2) somewhat disagree
          (3) Not sure
          (4) somewhat agree
          (5) strongly agree

          “Does President Obama’s performance in office makes it more or less likely for you to support an African-American presidental candidate in future.

          (1) Very unlikely
          (2) Somewhat unlikely
          (3) No Difference
          (4) Somewhat likely
          (5) Very likely

          “The Civil War was, at root, about slavery and freedom for African-Americans.”

          (1) Strongly Agree
          (2) Somewhat Agree
          (3) Not sure
          (4) Somewhat disagree
          (5) Somewhat agree.

        6. avatar JK says:

          Ding Ding Ding. Well played. I am amazed out how many people refuse to acknowledge the high degree of racism and ignorance still present. (That isn’t to say that people wouldn’t oppose Obama’s policies on principle, or any democrat regardless of race. But there is also a lot of ugliness under the surface.)

        7. avatar jkp says:

          @JK: Not playing anything. Those questions were offered in good faith.

          MikeB302000 is full of horseshit most of the time, and I think visits here mostly because he loves seeing his name on a computer screen. That said, my intuition is that you will find a higher proportion of racists at this convention, again, based on nothing more than the fact that this Oval Fabus/Robert C. Byrd-wannabe felt confident enough to walk around with this t-shirt on.

        8. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          So, you’re basically agreeing with me but you just couldn’t resist dropping a few insults? What the hell is wrong with you?

        9. avatar JK says:

          @jkp, I was meaning “well played” as a sincere compliment. Your post was spot on.

        10. avatar jkp says:

          @mikeb30200: You ARE full of horseshit most of the time. I’m sorry if that seems rude, but with me, speaking the truth sometimes overrides being polite.

          I may coincidentally agree with you once every thousand posts. That does not mean you weren’t full of horseshit the other 999 times.

        11. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          What you mean is I say things you disagree with.

        12. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          Your questions are the result of inexplicable Obama hatred.

        13. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          You call that dancing? Ha.

          Sure, ask them straight up if they hate niggers. You might get one crotchety old guy to say yes, but you’d have to go through quite a few hidden racists to find him.

          Robert, what else could explain the weird and unique Obama hate we have in the country?

        14. avatar jkp says:

          Re: horseshit, see mikeb30200’s post above.

        15. avatar jkp says:

          Been 3 days and no word — no survey was done?

  2. avatar cz82mak says:

    Yeah, that dude is a jack ass. Please kick that cracka in the nuts for me.

    1. avatar Buuurr says:

      Funny enough this goes back to the post regarding guns and how to get more diversity (which someone thought was a bad idea if I recall correctly). If there were actually some black folk at this dealy this dick wouldn’t be so ballsy with his racist shirt.

      1. avatar GFR says:

        You’re probably right – if there were black people there he would probably be met with violence…

        Maybe that’s the reason some people don’t like black people?

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          Absolutely, because as we all know, white folks ain’t never violent.

        2. avatar jkp says:

          The fact that he was able to walk through the convention without suffering any social stigma (or did he? Mr. McNabb’s post doesn’t say,) probably doesn’t say much positive about the people attending that day who took notice of this person and didn’t say anything.

          What was that line that people like to quote on the gun fora? Something about how all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing?

          The first amendment does not require you to be silent just because someone else is expressing their opinion. Not all opinions are created equal.

        3. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          But, they’re not all good people, man. Many of them are just like the shirt-wearer, asshole racists who are proud of the fact.

          Robert’s ridiculous challenge to me was pretty funny. He offered to interview twenty of them on the matter, inferring I suppose that I’m wrong about this.

          When you guys get results you don’t like in telephone surveys, you quickly point out that people don’t tell the truth, but now all of a sudden we’re going to get admissions of racial hatred just be asking, and on camera no less????

        4. avatar jkp says:

          mikeb302000, good people also don’t fight against civil rights — whether it’s an Oval Fabus or Strom Thurmond who fought for a political regime in which a man’s skin color is more important than his character, skill, or intelligence, OR whether it’s a Sarah Brady or Nancy Pelosi, who fight for a political regime in which a 100 pound woman would have to rely on her fists to fight off a 200 pound rapist.

          The fact that some gun owners are racists or other types of fecal matter does not mean that we must restrict the right to bear arms of all of the people (many of whom are good,) any more than the fact that the Nazis want to hold a rally gives the government license to suspend the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly for everyone. Sure, that MIGHT make the jobs of the police and other public security services more effective, but that is N O T the highest aim that the government of a free people should pursue.

          As for Mr. Farago, I am indeed curious to see if he followed up on his little survey.

      2. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

        I was there today – met Nick Leghorn. Didn’t see this ass.

    2. avatar James says:

      And by invoking a racial epithet commonly used against white people, you prove yourself no better than him.

  3. avatar Bob says:

    I agree completely.

    This kind of behavior hurts our cause by giving the other side exactly what it is looking for, proof that opposition to Obama is racially motivated.

    P.S. Tim, fix the grammatical error in your title. It should be “an”, not “and”. We don’t look smarter than the idiot in the picture, when we make stupid english mistakes like that.

  4. avatar Sanchanim says:

    I think Tim is typing taking photos, notes and didn’t proof read but I forgive him.
    Ok I was raised democrat, and yes I voted for Obama. Not sure who the GOP is going to put up front but if I like him better then he gets my vote.
    The Picture and person wearing the shirt is just dumb, meaning person and shirt.

    Like you said Tim, you may not like Obama’s policies, or certain things he has or hasn’t done, but he is a person and a citizen of this country like us all.
    That is what makes TTAG great, we all have opinions yes even mikeb3000. We may or may not like them as a person after getting to know them but we should respect their opinions.

    So we seem to agree this guy is an ass.

    1. avatar GFR says:

      Do you REALLY think that obama “respects” altternative points of view?

      1. avatar Dex says:

        GFR, thats weak. prove it or shut up. how has obama seperated our country?

  5. avatar Kevin T says:

    Whether you vote for him or not, as an American you should support your president and hope he does make the right decisions for the country. Whether you approve of his actions can be expressed at the ballot box. Inciting race like this does not help and only puts people further apart instead of uniting, as well as makes you and whoever you support look bad.

    1. avatar GFR says:

      Your argument MIGHT make sense if obama had done ANYTHING to “unite” us. Instead he has played the “Race” card at every opportunity.

      I respect the office of the Presidency but I don’t respect obama – he’s just a race-baiting thug.

      1. avatar jkp says:

        @GFR:

        You respect the office, not the man.

        1. avatar Moonshine7102 says:

          Maybe. But there’s a man serving in that office, and his words and actions while in that office will be judged.

        2. avatar jkp says:

          No, there’s no maybe about it. You respect the OFFICE and what it represents, not whoever happens to hold that office.

          Presidents can be turned out of office in election years. In the event they commit high crimes and misdemeanors, they can be removed via the impeachment process.

          You don’t have to like *or* respect Obama as a man, of course. But I think you should be mindful to keep discourse about how he executes his duties in a civil tone. Even if he IS wrong.

      2. avatar karlb says:

        Could you define “thug” in a way that makes sense in this sentence (other than a Lee Atwater-esque meaning).

    2. avatar Silver says:

      I’d agree if you said support the “office” of the presidency. Citizens should do anything BUT support a president who has essentially ripped the country apart.

  6. avatar Moonshine7102 says:

    To quote our CINC, “He’s a jackass.”

  7. avatar Tim McNabb says:

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The left likes to take snapshots of the one clod in the crowd and use that to paint the rest. My intent is to just be among the first to point and say loudly “IDIOT”.

  8. avatar Aharon says:

    Shame on him; he is pond scum. Yup, there are lots of political reasons to be against BO (as there are MR). All have to do with the person and NOT the race or religion.

    1. avatar Totenglocke says:

      Well, if you look at it from a different perspective, it might not mean the racist thing you think it does. I’ve heard black lecturers at universities talk about how being a “n****r” is a lifestyle choice, not a racial issue and that people of all races can be one. It’s possible that’s how he views the use or the word and not the popular “it means black people suck” interpretation of the word.

      Odds are he means it in the bad way, but I’m just pointing out that without talking to him, you can’t know for sure.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        Bullshit, Totenglocke. I can know that he (or at least his t-shirt) means it exactly “the bad way.” I can know that because I’m a thinking adult who understands the English language.

        The word that t-shirt is bastardizing is “renege.” Spelling it “re-nig” is nothing more than not-so-latent racism.

        1. avatar sdog says:

          so true matt in fl, no amount of verbal gymnastics will make that shit anything but racilized political hatred.

          this fool might as well open his wallet for the brady bunch and their ilk, because this CRAP helps the hoplophobic crowd who wants to paint all 2A advocates a latent hutaree milita members.

        2. avatar John Fritz says:

          That was my immediate thought too Totenglock but then I gave it another look and the word used in that context doesn’t work. A definition of renege is “To break or fail to carry out a promise or agreement”.

          So the play on words here (if that is the intention) doesn’t really make any sense. At least not to me.

          Of course if it’s meant as strictly a lowbrow insult then mission accomplished.

        3. avatar Totenglocke says:

          What part of “He probably means it in that way” did you not understand? I simply was pointing out that being arrogant and automatically assuming that you know every aspect of another person’s opinion without talking to them is foolish.

      2. avatar Aharon says:

        I once had a rhetoric teacher tell our rebellious trouble-making class that is possible to be so open-minded that our own reasoning can fall out of our heads. I know there are lots of academic PC-types who can get away with preaching lots of anti-white anti-male anti-hetero etc irrational propaganda. Don’t let those unrealistic lecture types make you jaded.

        While I don’t stereotype people I do profile them. The t-shirt man lives in fear of seeing his world collapse around him. I can emphasize with his fears yet I will not play sympathetic to his counter-productive and emotionally immature behavior.

  9. avatar Guywithagun says:

    This is irresponsible reporting: There’s no way to tell from that photo that he’s a gun owner.

    1. avatar Blinky Pete says:

      It looks like he’s at a gun show, so it’s probably a safe assumption. Regardless, he’s an idiot.

      1. avatar Guywithagun says:

        Yes, but clearly you missed the ironicalness.

      2. avatar Dirk Diggler says:

        Romney was at the convention today.

    2. avatar Tim McNabb says:

      I took the picture, and he had NRA convention credentials. Maybe he was a plant, but I am a firm beleiver in occams razor.

      1. avatar Guywithagun says:

        Is everyone’s sarcasm sensor broken today, or is it just me?

        It was just a joke, Tim. I really do appreciate your reporting. Thanks for all your hard work out there today (that was not sarcasm).

      2. avatar Tim McNabb says:

        Guywithagun – Clearly my sarcasm detector is busted. I had a lot of fun, but I must have picked up a little testiness along the way.

      3. avatar karlb says:

        Ironically, Ockham had a beard.

  10. avatar Tom says:

    Slogan is old hat by now.

  11. avatar Matt Gregg says:

    People like that are responsible for the poor public image of gun owners. That jackass is hurting all of us.

    1. avatar ScottA says:

      And black people are responsible for the poor public image of black people but that’s still blamed on whites.

      1. avatar Buuurr says:

        Read a book, ScottA. What you are saying is blatantly not true. Many social professors and intellects in Ohio have studied this to pieces and let me tell you as someone who has studied the crime and the social awareness of it. Blacks do blame Blacks for their crimes. Ignorant Blacks blame us for their crimes. Many White folk do the same thing but we don’t want to look at that do we?. I was surprised to see that while Blacks do commit and are convicted of a lot of violent crimes, Whites (in my area (Ohio) and Oregon) are convicted on an about equal rate to the violent crime of sexual crimes (mostly child molestation). Look it up. Read it over. Out there it actually is noticed by those that do more than read the news.

  12. avatar BLAMMO says:

    When the SHTF, I want that guy right next to me. That way, I can shoot him first.

    @$$wipe.

  13. avatar Silver says:

    Saw it on a bumper sticker too some time back.

    Gun owners will always have facts, logic, and reason with which to win arguments and further our cause. Leave the race-baiting and empty shock blurbs to the antis, it’s their forte after all.

  14. avatar g says:

    Wow, seriously?

    Wearing that shirt is pretty much a huge FAIL.

  15. avatar Dex says:

    Exactly how has obama’s policies been a disaster? based on what i have seen, he has just continued to perpetuate america’s failed foreign policy and bush-era shenanigans.

    1. avatar Tim McNabb says:

      OK Dex, I think you self-refuted there. If you do not think Obama’s policies are a disaster and he is continuing previous policies, then you cannot think previous policies are a disaster.

      For the record, I think whatever disastrous polices he continued from Bush were disasters when Bush did them.

      1. avatar Dex says:

        self-refuted? i was asking the question again.

        I thought i made it simple enough.

  16. avatar Tim McNabb says:

    I think heaping opprobrium on people who have it coming is an important, organic form of cultural hygiene.

  17. avatar Matt in MT says:

    This clown is the brush with which the media will paint the rest of the attendees.

  18. avatar THE TRUTH says:

    He is definitely showing his conservatism proudly. Ignorant, uneducated is what the RepubliCONs like.

    1. avatar Robert Farago says:

      Or not.

  19. avatar jkp says:

    Should’ve taken his picture. Sunlight is often necessary to send cockroaches scattering.

  20. avatar KWAL says:

    I bet the ATF is planting a bunch of them at the show to prove how racist gunowners are. Those tshirts are illegal and they were allowed to be sold to OFWGs to “walk” around the show.

    1. avatar Mark Smith says:

      Pretty sure they’re legal. You can say all the hateful racist things you like, putting them on a t-shirt is no different.

      The rest of us can ridicule you and shun you for saying hateful racist things, but you are free to say them.

    2. avatar karlb says:

      ATF must be slapping bumper stickers with the same message on cars . . . them Feds are crafty.

  21. avatar twency says:

    Disgustingly racist shirt is disgustingly racist.

    Next?

  22. avatar Alaskan Nutkase says:

    all I have to say is this guy in the picture is an idiot… obama is not a citizen of the US. Anybody that can see only skin deep is a fool.
    Watch this short video about obama
    http://youtu.be/Z6QOscKvUjU

    1. avatar mikeb302000 says:

      Inexplicable Obama hate.

      1. avatar jkp says:

        *Sigh*. I have to agree with mikeb30200 on that.

  23. avatar Alaskan Nutkase says:

    Oh yea, and MikeB is now calling all gun owners racist pigs… you are a poor ignorant fool. I dont put all liberals into the same boat as you, that would be unfair, so you do NOT have the right to put everybody or ANYBODY gun owner or not, into the same boat as this guy wearing this shirt.

    1. avatar mikeb302000 says:

      ALL? Did I really say that?

      1. avatar Buuurr says:

        FLAME DELETED

      2. avatar Matt in FL says:

        No, Mike, you didn’t say “all” gun owners are racist, because FLAME DELETED. You use mealy-mouthed terms like “many” and “most” when you cast your aspersions, so that when someone takes offense or offers objection, you can say, “Oh, of course I didn’t mean you! I was talking about all those other people.” That way, nobody can ever pin you down to any hard statements or numbers or facts. It’s all presumptions, assumptions, and feelings.

        1. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          You get upset because you want to get upset, Matt. It’s feigned umbrage, it’s bullshit. You’re so busy defending your rights you can’t even be honest in this back-peddling comment.

          I don’t say ALL and I don’t say “many or most” either. I say SOME.

        2. avatar RuffRidr says:

          Let me quote from you in another comment in this thread:

          “The NRA convention is full of racist Obama-haters”

          That’s not some Mike. You just unfairly labeled 60,000 some gun owners as racists.

  24. avatar Mark Smith says:

    I hate seeing crap like this. There’s plenty of valid reasons to want to see Obama lose the presidential race this time around, but his skin color is not one of them. America has come a long way and shirts with racist messages on them not only set back political progress (because why argue against your opponent’s policies when you can argue against the color of his skin, of all things), but they set America back as a whole.

    May any man or woman be respected by the contents of their character rather than their outward appearance. We are what we are based on our convictions and actions, not the color of our skin.

  25. avatar Don says:

    this crap kills my soul.

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