Rob Pincus: A Gun Wouldn’t Help a New York City Cabbie

 

I’m totally in favor of people having the right to carry a defensive firearm regardless of job or jurisdiction. But I’m not sure how much a firearm would help a cabby in NYC when they have a gun to their head or a knife to their throat. Going for a pistol is a recipe for a really bad tie. At best. Unless the cabbie in question (and peril) has taken one of Craig Douglas‘ Vehicular Brazilian Jui-Jitsu courses to learn how to fight (and control a bad guy’s weapon) in a car. As a self-defense instructor there are times when you have to explain to people that are violent encounters where you really are fucked. This would be one of them.

Rob Pincus owns and operates ICE Training. Click here for more information.

30 Responses to Rob Pincus: A Gun Wouldn’t Help a New York City Cabbie

  1. avatarEric says:

    Not the point. Anyone in that situation is at a terrible disadvantage. The idea though, is that if criminals “know” that every cabbie probably carries a gun, they are less likely to attempt to get a driver in that disadvantageous position to begin with.

    Once you have a gun to the back of your head you’ve almost certainly lost, but the situation doesn’t start out that way and it would be a risk for a criminal to try to get there.

    The attacker wouldn’t be satisfied with a tie either.

    • avatarRob Pincus says:

      You could argue equally that arming out of shape, untrained cabbies could also increase their attractiveness as a target to certain individuals wanting to steal guns in a firearms sparse city….

  2. avatarVan says:

    I’m thinking a security cage would be a better investment.

    • Maybe bullet proof glass, a cage probably won’t protect you from a gun. I’d rather the chance to take the gun away if it was right up in my face, but any way you look at that its a horrible situation to be in.

      The best investment would be in some career skills that gets you out of a cab.

  3. avatarJohnny says:

    I’d take some sort of bullet proof glass if I were a cab driver. Really wouldn’t like to end up in the situation in the photo.

  4. avatarRob Pincus says:

    Eric, no doubt that there would be a deterrent effect. Good point. But, I never advocate carrying a gun as a magic talisman…

    • avatarAPBTFan says:

      I don’t think any of us here carry a gun as a magic talisman. Why would a cabbie be any different? A cabbie at least has the option of pulling his/her heater if or when the punk gets distracted. If I have a gun to my head you bet I’ll be looking for any advantage that presents itself and be thankful I have that option.

  5. avatarCasey1911 says:

    Too bad this never happened on Cash Cab. It might make that show a little more entertaining.

  6. avatarJohn Fritz says:

    Allow the NYC cabbie to make the firearm decision him or herself. Then evaluate the pros and cons of their choice, whatever it may be.

    • avatarRob Pincus says:

      Irony Alert:

      The author of “deadliest men” is an avid student of Craig’s and was just training ith both of us for the last to days at the NE Shooters Conference….

      Lots of people have survived deadly encounters with no prior training, or even poor training…. Neither should indicate that someone should NOT seek out the best training they can find…

  7. avatarJeff says:

    The obvious solution to problems like this is to pass a law that designates cabs as gun free zones. Problem solved.

  8. avatarSanchanim says:

    I kind of agree in that yeah the situation wouldn’t be optimal but allowing them the option is worth the fight anyways.

  9. avatarChas says:

    While I understand the premise, aren’t we all at a disadvantage when a criminal decides to relieve us of something, whether it’s personal property, our health or our life? If that’s the case, why carry at all? It’s because while carrying doesn’t guarantee our survival, it does increase our chances.

    Let the cabbies carry if they wish.

  10. avatarcaffeinated says:

    Not all situations are going to be the worst case scenario as presented.

  11. avatarRoadrunner says:

    Wrecking the car, really hard, and if possible right where the cold blooded killer is sitting, seems like an option. I’d still rather have a gun than not, though.

  12. avatarAD says:

    Rob, I think you’re way off base here, in a way that does not help our cause. You sound like that network news show that “proved” concealed carry could not help you in a mass shooting situation via a sterile, set up training scenario that had very limited bearing on reality. SouthNarc’s courses are equal offenders tactics-wise, creating and “proving” tactical solutions to training drill problems and telling the students that they’re approximating reality just because it feels more intense than most training they’ve done before. I’ve spoken and trained with many people who have been in such close quarters situations (primarily cops in the ’70s through ’90s), and they all agree that the basic dynamics of such a situation are simply not present in the drills and techniques run by a lot of “modern” trainers like you and Craig. This isn’t meant as a personal attack, just concern over this “reality simulation” trend that isn’t. When the result is just some overconfident students who will likely never need the skills, that’s one thing. When you try to use your training drill “tests” to explain reality and tell people what’s what, in a way that can be used as fodder for the enemies of freedom, that’s just bad. I was going to mention Harrison but someone already did. He’s just one example of reality’s not remotely matching “reality-based” drills (cab driver completely successful in thwarting a bunch of attempted armed hold-ups with his revolver–he was shot only later while trying to stop a liquor store robbery).

    • avatarRob Pincus says:

      I don’t give out training advice based on politics or media bias. This is life & death stuff. In the big picture, people carrying firearms for defense is better than them not doing it…. But I think they need to do it with the proper mindset, perspective and training.

      As for our classes, I don’t speak for Craig, but I’d invite anyone who questions the efficacy of the curriculum to come out and take the courses, or at least offer salient counter-points for discussion based on empirical evidence, physics, anatomy or anything other than opinion/anecdote.

      • avatarScott says:

        I believe what Rob is saying here is that while he advocates carrying for personal defense, once a bad guy has the gun to the head or a knife to the throat, the cabbie is at a serious disadvantage. Instead of escalating the situation to which cabbie would almost certainly lose, go for the better odds and comply with bad guy for now.

        • avatarRob Pincus says:

          That is certainly a big part of it, Scott. At least as important is something AD missed in the lesson we can learn from Harrison: luck counts, but you can’t count on luck… Eventually, things can go bad. I prefer to train for the worst case scenarios and then, if I’m lucky, my fights will be easier… Not go the other way around.

  13. avatarMike DeArmond says:

    A bully does not want a fight. The Defender starts a fight when he resists the attacker. The bully just wants to beat you up, kill you, take your money, humiliate you, etc. What a bully does NOT want is a fight.

  14. avatarLemming says:

    Rob hasn’t seen the animated classic Heavy Metal.

  15. There are many situations where anyone of us may be carrying a gun, but might be caught off guard or in a disadvantaged position. Anytime someone points a gun at your head, the gun at your hip or inside your waistband will probably not be very useful.

    That does not mean a person should not carry because of the possibility of some situations where they are not able to use their firearm as effectively. Just because you have a gun, does not mean that using it is the best option every time…. it is ONE option out of several others.

Leave a Reply

Please use your real name instead of you company name or keyword spam.