George Zimmerman Charged In Trayvon Martin Shooting

Forida State Attorney Angela Corey will hold a press conference at 6:00p Eastern to announce the charges she’ll bring against George Zimmerman in the killing of Trayvon Martin. She’ll announce the state charges Zimmerman will face, but the volunteer neighborhood watch captain still faces a federal investigation into any civil rights violations that may have occurred. Zimmerman’s attorneys withdrew from the case yesterday due to lack of contact from their client. CNN is reporting that Zimmerman has been taken into custody.

UPDATE: After an Academy Awards-length list of thank-yous to various supporting players and an interminable preamble, Angela Cory – in full-makeup and wearing an incongruous grin for the cameras – announced that she is charging George Zimmerman with second degree murder.

As our friend Ralph laid out, this outcome was virtually pre-ordained when she took over the investigation. It’s being reported by CNN and other outlets that Zimmerman has procured a new attorney skilled in handling high profile cases and media relations, skills that will certainly be needed in the months (years?) leading up to the trial. Let the circus begin. Well, continue.

141 Responses to George Zimmerman Charged In Trayvon Martin Shooting

  1. avatarSanchanim says:

    So wonder if he will be appointed a public defender?
    Does anyone even know if he is still alive? I mean he disappeared and no one has seen him anywhere. If he has left the state or country he better get his butt home, or at least contact the prosecutor to arrange transport and safe return.
    Given the issues, I am sure they would be willing to arrange for him to turn himself in and be transported safely home to deal with this.

    • avatarMadDawg J says:

      They have stated they will arrest him where he is, the prosecutor knows where he is, and not let him turn himself in.

  2. avatarPascal says:

    The AP is reporting the he is in custody and will be charged with 2nd degree murder

    http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-murder-charge-trayvon-martin-case-214123361.html

  3. avatarAharon says:

    Since BO & his good pal EH consider borders meaningless then shouldn’t they be prosecuted for the racial hate crimes (involuntary manslaughter at least) they have committed because of Operation F&F against Hispanic citizens living in Mexico?

  4. avatarMadDawg J says:

    Main Stream Media 1 Justice System 0

    • avatarAharon says:

      If GZ was an illegal alien and a 100% Hispanic man who shot and killed a black adult man (or a white man) on his block would the masses of sheeple jump to GZ’s defense saying that those who criticize him must be Haters and Bigots?

      • avatarMadDawg J says:

        What?

        • avatarAharon says:

          I’m just wondering how different groups of people would react if the two men’s ethnic/racial background were somewhat different. If a woman and not a man shot TM that would be another one consider. What I’m getting at is changing the profiles of the people and not the actions that occurred.

        • avatarTim Tritt says:

          Nobody knows (except) GZ what happened, exactly. They will try to paint a picture (both defense and prosecuters). The sad truth is, justice will not prevail – this was a ginned-up, race-baiting opportunity from the get go… heck, it took 3 weeks before it even became national…

          Now we have a Simi Valley/Rodney King powderkeg about to happen – if the jury finds him not-guilty, then the NBPP and their “friends” will have an excuse to riot. But if he is found guilty, we will never really know if it was simply to “keep the peace”. Our “blind” lady of justice is no more, sadly.

        • avatarHSR47 says:

          The issue is that, like it or not, men and women are different. Thus, our preconceived notions of them are different.

          This matters, because the preconceived notion that the media has been playing up is “big scary angry white man attacks beautiful kind defenseless young child.” Everything they have printed plays out this rhetoric.

          The same would not be true were a woman to have stood in Zimmerman’s shoes, namely because it wouldn’t fit the narrative: Women are, in general, not physically intimidating, nor are they generally as aggressive.

        • avatarSanchanim says:

          Actually race, sex, or what ever doesn’t matter to me. I want the truth what ever that may be.

        • avatarMike Taylor says:

          True, very true, but can the same be said of the average person? I consider myself just that ( and thus agree with you ) but what of the sensationalism that this case has generated? How “blind” will justice be in this case?

  5. avatarSanchanim says:

    wow 2nd degree murder, that was a little unexpected.

    • avatarRalph says:

      Charge high, plea low. Manslaughter can be a lesser included offense to Murder 2.

      If the prosecutor though she had a strong murder case, she would have presented it to the Grand Jury.

      • avatarScottA says:

        That’s what’s so disgusting about it. She avoided the grand jury so she could charge him.

        • avatarLongPurple says:

          Based on the “ham sandwich” standard, it certainly looks like a very weak case against Zimmerman.
          Is there any way for the evidence gathered by this investigation, and the line of reasoning that led to the decision to charge second degree murder, to be made public if there is no trial?

      • avatarDirk Diggler says:

        +1

        A judge can still grant immunity under SYG or a jury will be hung or acquit. I doubt he will go to prison. Be broke? yes, but no jail time. I think she did this on purpose so she can show she did something, knowing he will walk. I think her taped comments on Anderson Cooper’s show last week about seeking “Justice for Trayvon™” rather than justice itself will be a problem for her in the ultimate prosecution

      • avatarSanchanim says:

        Good point. I am interested in the facts, I have so many questions it isn’t even funny.
        From a legal stand point this will be precedent setting I am sure in a lot of aspects, especially in Florida for the use of SYG.

  6. avatarST says:

    It is a sad when MSNBC has more power than a practicing attorney to determine the guilt or innocence of a man. Somewhere, somehow the truth still matters to this case.

  7. avatarboomenshutzen says:

    What a hot mess. It’s sad that GZ is essentially presumed guilty until proven innocent. It’s sad that a young man lost his life in such a tragic way. No matter the outcome of the trial there will be no happy endings here.

    • avatarHSR47 says:

      Which again provides more proof of the hypothesis that gunfights do not have winners, only survivors.

      • avatarsdog says:

        exactly when did a “gun fight” occur? and wouldn’t this require both parties in this situation to be strapped up.

  8. avatarVan says:

    Let the circus begin continue.

  9. avatarAccur81 says:

    He’ll probably be safer in custody, all things considered. Excellent job to the media on the left for creating this spectacle (note massive sarcasm). Even if he is acquitted, his life is nigh well ruined, and he’ll be forever watching his six.

    I’d like to see media accountability – see them under the same heat they created for George Zimmerman. Let’s not forget our friends to no one, the New Black Panther Party. Alas, media accountability and personal responsibility are nearly extinct.

  10. avatarSparky says:

    I almost barfed listening to Corey. Nice show she put on.

  11. avatarKYgunner says:

    My prediction: shortly after being jailed, he is killed by an inmate, who is heard yelling “Justice for Trayvon” while he shanks Zimmerman.

  12. avatarMikeS says:

    He’ll never come out of P.C. for as long as he’s in custody. Be it 2 or 20 years.

  13. avatarIndyEric says:

    Apparently, I am not exactly behind the 8 ball.

  14. avatarTim says:

    They’re fools for charging him with 2nd. 3rd or manslaughter would probably be a slam-dunk, but 2nd degree is a pretty high hurdle for the to prove beyond reasonable doubt. They have to prove that GZ went out that night with the *intent* to use lethal force against somebody. And in case nobody is paying attention, there’s only one witness to what happened. Dead men, innocent or otherwise, tell no tales.

    GZ has *years* of well-documented, good-faith activity coordinated with local police. I bet they know him very well. This will weigh heavily with a jury.

  15. avatarBob says:

    If his attorney presents the justifiable homicide due to self-defense theory, there is enough evidence to support that line of defense. The evidence that I have heard about in the press presents a lot of reasonable doubt that it was murder. At worst the jury will hang, and he will serve no prison time.

    This assumes that the judge assigned the case can maintain justice in his court room, not let the press turn the court room into a media circus.

  16. avatarSilver says:

    If he had any sense, he would’ve left the country weeks ago. He’s a dead man walking.

    The justice system is a lost cause. Faith in fellow Americans is a lost cause. This country as a whole is quickly becoming a lost cause. And the sad part is there’s nowhere else to go that offers any more true freedom.

  17. avatartdiinva says:

    Unless Ms. Corey has a surprise witness CSI style this is a big throw of the dice.
    As Ralph will confirm criminal trials are about selling a narrative. For second degree murder Corey will have to sell the story that Zimmerman got out his car, stalked Martin and gunned him down. I wouldn’t be surprised if she claimed that Martin was standing his ground against an assault by gun toting racist George Zimmerman. We know what the defense narrative will be. The body of evidence is in the public domain. If Zimmerman manages to get an Alan Dershowtiz class attorney this will turn out to be the worst decision in Angela Corey’s career. My guess is she is going ask him to take one for the team.

    But the real import of the charge is that for certain classes of people armed self defense is off the table. If you are white or Asian you might as well forget about carryimg because your chances of needing a gun to defend your self against your group is next to none. There may be some Hispanics that you can sell self defense to the prosecutor but it will be dicey. Forget about defending yourself against an African-American assailant. You will be charged. Hispanics are little better off. Unlikely to be attacked by Whites, Asians or most other Hispanics. The winner is the law abiding black citizen.

    • avatarDarren says:

      The other takeaway lesson is if you’re going to shoot someone in self-defense, have witnesses that see the whole thing. Better yet, run your cell phone in video record mode and get at least the audio of what’s going down. There is no start-to-finish record of what happened. That audio could either clear or hang Zimmerman, if it existed.

  18. avatarRalph says:

    Angela Cory’s job was to insulate Tallahassee while prosecuting Zimmerman.

    Job well done.

    • avatarMikeS says:

      Dingding! I think you are exactly right, Ralph.

    • avatarDirk Diggler says:

      +1 this is all about the fall elections. Republican governor appoints her to do the job. trial after the elections. take Sharpton and Jackson out of it so the swing voters don’t throw Florida to the far left.

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      I’ll suspend judgment as to how well Corey is insulating Tallahassee, though she already has earned an ‘A’ for effort. I found her smiling demeanor offensive, and a stark contrast to the two grim faces to her left. The extent of her pandering to the ‘victim’s’ family was more suitable to a sentencing hearing than an announcement of an information….but could have been a necessary element, in her view, in achieving the play’s intended effect.

      • avatarMadDawg J says:

        Agreed. Personally if I ever had a special prosecutor assigned to investigate me and they where smiling that big and that much while stating they where filing for my arrest I’d pull a MikeB and be posting to this site from well outside the US.

    • avatartdiinva says:

      I agree with Ropingdown. Looks good now but we have yet to hear from Zimmerman’s side. If he plea bargains manslaughter then she’s a big winner and if not, game on with state apparently holding a pair of deuces.

      I also beleive that Florida has a speedy trial law and the trial will start before the election. It is in Zimmerman’s best interest that trial take place sooner rather than later. This Republican Governor may have made a major political miscalculation here. There are no votes for his side in a trial only votes against. The is oh-so -mart move could cost Romney Florida and the election.

      • avatargirlswithguns says:

        Under FL law he has the right to trial within 175 days, and only the defense can extend that time (I’m sure there are some exceptions, but they would be few and hard to justify). If she had waited just about another month then she could have delayed trial past the November elections. Now she can’t.

  19. avatarGS650G says:

    Now that a decision on whether to charge him or not has been made it’s on to the next phase of the process. We will be hearing about this long after the summer is over, probably into next year.

  20. avatarConcerned says:

    Its unfortunate that GZ is already guilty no matter what really happened. Shame on everyone for making assumptions. You know what they say about assumptions. To bad he will never get a truly “fair” trial as i dont think you could probably find a person in America who hasnt heard of this case.

  21. avatarGuywithagun says:

    Not gonna stick:

    http://www.guns.com/zimmerman-second-degree-murder-custody.html

    “In Florida, the Second Degree Murder Statute (Statute 782.04[2]) mandates that the state must prove the following:

    1. The victim is dead

    2. The death was caused by a criminal act by the defendant.

    3. Victim was unlawfully killed by “an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.”

    If they want to try proving that defending yourself is a “criminal act” then we’re all screwed. Number 3 is gonna be tough too. Even two out of the three won’t do it. Gotta prove all 3. Quite frankly, it is incredibly stupid of them to charge him with this unless they hope for him to plea to a lesser charge. In that case, it’s brilliant and our justice system has failed yet again.

    • avatarTom says:

      Interesting.
      Actually, if he has a real good attorney, he might not plead and fight the murder charge with a Hispanic jury. Especially item 3.

      • avatarDubya Bee says:

        I believe precedent dictates that the act of shooting a person itself demonstrates “a depraved mind without regard for human life.” They won’t even have to talk about his stated of mind, just his admitted action.

        Of course, that only matters if they can prove it wasn’t self-defense.

        • avatarrosignol says:

          If there’s evidence that he was assaulted (the reported broken nose, etc), it’s going to be very difficult to prove it wasn’t self-defense.

          I hope he’s got a competent lawyer. Either the prosecutor is an idiot, or they’re going to bring something out of left field.

          And then there are the feds circling. What civil rights violation do they think they can charge him with?

    • avatarPascal says:

      Actually its perfect. Maybe the state does not have a strong case, maybe they already know. To prevent riots, for now, they need this spectacle and give the people their circus and bread. They may well know it will not stick, but they need to go through the motions to defuse the emotions. Zimmerman is the pawn in this game and the clown in the circus, but it is required to make the public feel better. As the great movie line says “You cannot handle the truth” and this is the case for many regarding this case. Given that the “trial of public opinion” has mostly said he is guilty, they need the real courts to over turn it. I feel that even if the evidence was 100% to prove he did nothing wrong, given all the media circus and uproar from various “comminity leaders” and even having US AG Holder in the earlier today, they had to roast someone if nothing else but for show.

      • avatarDubya Bee says:

        I agree with your analysis. They think it might work, but in reality, they’re setting up another Rodney King riot.

        The pols could have just waited for a while, as the temperature was falling, and then announce a no-bill. That would provoke a reaction, but I don’t think that reaction would have been anything like the reaction they’ll get after putting him on trial and not finding him guilty.

      • avatarMark Smith says:

        So what if he was guilty of killing an unarmed teen with no provocation, in cold blood? Would you believe it, or dismiss it as ‘lies told to make the public happy’?

        • avatarRydak says:

          There is not a single piece of evidence which suggests that he killed him with “a depraved mind without regard for human life.”” . Even the staunchest Martin supports know they were fighting, Martin had no injuries on him, save a gunshot (as per his undertaker’s statement) and Zimmerman had a wound on the back and front of his head. So the argument that Zimmerman hunted Martin down and killed him in cold blood is a bit over the top. Let alone something that can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

          Yea, I think this case is exactly where it needs to be. Were FACTS and only FACTS are permitted.

          No more Race bating, No more pictures of little 12 year old boys with baby faces. Mr. Martin’s six foot three inch stature will be presented accurately. As will his almost entire upper body being covered in tattoos and a mouth full of gold teeth.

          Now, hey, if there is a fact which we do not know, which proved Zimmerman guilty, then fine, lock him up and throw away the key. But we cant get there in a civilized society with false information being presented as facts. People saying he was killed because of his skin color and that Zimmerman was a white racist when not even the slightest shred of evidence suggest it to be so. People saying he was killed because of the stand your ground law, which doesn’t even apply to this case, for either side.

      • avatarIdahoPete says:

        Agree – this looks like a fairly cynical ploy by the State Attorney. If they can get Zimmerman to plead to a lesser count, they will accept that because they probably figure they can’t convict him of 2nd degree murder under the Florida laws. Alternatively, she may figure on letting it go to a jury, and if he is not convicted it’s not her fault. “Hey, I took my best shot – but the jury didn’t agree.”

        Rodney King riots may start, but I strongly suspect the Florida citizenry will not accept them in the same mostly-passive manner as the left-coast LA -ers did.

  22. avatarTeeJaw says:

    I thought Martin had Zimmerman on the ground and was banging his head into the ground. No?

    • avatarR Hampton says:

      Not all instances of self-defense meet the legal requirements to permit the use of a firearm. Simply getting the snot beat out of you is insufficient grounds. (see Florida’s Self-Defense Laws – http://volokh.com/2012/03/27/floridas-self-defense-laws/)

      • avatarJoe Grine says:

        You are wrong about that. How exactly are you supposed to know that the attacker is simply going to “beat the snot out of you”? If you have a definite size advantage or something along those lines, then perhaps you might have issues. But you do not have to let yourself get beat up before you can use lethal force.

      • avatarRopingdown says:

        Of course not every case meets the legal requirements. It is meaningless to say, though, that “simply getting the snot beat out of you is insufficient grounds,” and Oleg Volokh asserts no such thing (e.g. in the post you cite). Florida courts have ruled on this in previous cases. “Mere slaps” are not enough to constitute “great bodily harm” although a “crushed jaw” or “cracked scull” is. I would consider these later two as “getting the snot beat out of you.” There is reason not to hold a man down and try to crush his skull on the pavement: Even in such case as the party held down had initially started the altercation, “with force merely equal to simple assault,” if the other party ups the violence to that constituting “aggravated assault,” which means great bodily harm in the usual case, if the initiating party suffering that much greater violence has exhausted means to escape (but is held down or has the exit blocked) then he may again claim justified use of lethal force. The FL self-defense statute and case law is clear on that. The quotes are from relevant FL cases. The facts as determined by the judge or jury will be determinative.

      • avatarKendahl says:

        I wish people would realize that unarmed combat between adults is far more serious and deadly than schoolyard fisticuffs. In my city alone, I am aware of two people who have been killed that way and three who were put into comas due to their head injuries. The criterion for defending yourself with deadly force is a reasonable fear of death or serious injury. Each of these incidents qualifies.

        At this point, we don’t know if Zimmerman picked a fight with Martin and resorted to his gun when he found himself losing or if Martin resented having his intentions questioned and jumped Zimmerman in retaliation. I hope the lawyers on both sides are competent so that all the facts are brought out during the trial.

  23. avatarBob says:

    How the heck is a 28 year old college student going to afford lawyers competent enough to counter an opponent enjoying almost unlimited funding?

    • avatarkarlb says:

      You might ask the same very good question about many of the people on death row. The Supreme Court has said that while council is a right, the Constitution does not say it has to be good council (or even awake, I believe). While Zimmerman is in trouble, the notoriety should help him, also. I am pretty sure that someone with deep pockets will have a strong interest in making sure he has good representation.

    • avatarRopingdown says:

      People devote most of fifteen or twenty years paying off student loans for Sociology degrees. I think George would be willing to pay even longer to save his own freedom from imprisonment for life. He’ll get good representation.

    • avatarM&P9L says:

      His parents and the rest of his family are probably draining every dollar they have for retirement and investments into his defense

    • avatarDaveL says:

      If you think that’s bad, take a long, hard look at the public defender system in this country. Zimmerman’s family is middle-class, and he has a lot of supporters. A lot of people charged with crimes are poor, from poor families, and their cases come and go in obscurity.

    • avatarGuywithagun says:

      Two words: Johnny Cochran.

      Oh, wait…

  24. avatarJosh says:

    Second degree murder… it sets the bar so high for the prosecution that it indicates that:
    a) they know something we don’t know that would take away the self-defense angle
    or
    b)Politically, they can’t do manslaughter or let him off, so they are going for broke.. even though the circumstances we all have access to so far indicate this charge isn’t warranted… We’ll see if any new facts come out.

    • avatarDubya Bee says:

      Or it’s a case of the prosecutor charging high and offering to settle later for a lesser charge.

      • avatarrosignol says:

        Sounds possible, maybe even probable… but if he has competent counsel, the lawyer will tell him the case against him is weak and he does not want to be “the guy who killed that kid” in prison.

        Something weird is going on. Which I suppose is normal for Florida- it’s a strange place- but it’s not good.

      • avatarJake says:

        I didn’t even know what she picked ’til I glimpsed someone’s paper this morning. As soon as I saw 2nd degree I immediately knew she was fishing for a plea bargain.

    • avatartdiinva says:

      If there were new facts that were incriminating then Ms. Corey would have gotten a grand jury to indict. Since she didn’t do that I don’t see anything of significance that could strengthen her case. Discovery should be fun.

    • avatarMikeyO says:

      That’s exactly right Josh. Based on the “facts” we have so far, you would think Zimmerman was justified in his use of deadly force. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the Prosecution knows, that we do not. Or, as you said, this is just another political move.

  25. avatarMark Smith says:

    I saw that coming. Still not sure why you’re all so eager to leap to his defense.

    It looks like someone shot an unarmed kid that he chased down. It’d be a miracle to get anything but 1st/2nd degree murder out of that. Getting off of that charge would require a slightly smaller miracle with what we’ve seen so far.

    • avatarSanchanim says:

      I am certainly not defending him. To be honest he F***D up royally. Seriously anyone with even a small amount of training wouldn’t have gotten within 30 feet of Trayvon ever. There are so many cases I could recite here to prove the point but long story short he should have never had gotten within half a block of him ever until police arrived. And this is based off of his 911 call, not anyone else’s, and not by any rumors.

    • avatarDubya Bee says:

      It doesn’t look like that at all. Why was Zimmerman cut on the back of his head? Why was his nose broken? Why was his back wet?

      • avatarMark Smith says:

        From the video, he doesn’t look hurt at all. He’s alert, moving like he was uninjured, he isn’t touching his head or his nose – those things could be highly exaggerated or made up from whole cloth. It doesn’t look good from everything that’s available.

        • avatarMikeS says:

          Touching his nose or head would have been a neat trick….. as he was handcuffed.

        • avatarRydak says:

          You haven’t seen the clear video? With the injury evident? He is handcuffed behind the back…what would you like him to touch?

    • avatarGuywithagun says:

      There’s not a single piece of information that indicates he “chased (anyone) down”. He may have followed Martin but, sorry, that’s not illegal.

  26. avatarSha-ul says:

    Correct me if I am wrong, but under Fl state law, if he is acquitted, doesn’t the state pick up the tab?

  27. avatarMike Taylor says:

    When Eric Holder steps up and “vow’s to get to the truth” of this case, it has become a political quagmire. When the President of the United States stands before a microphone and declares that “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon,” it has become a political issue. When the members of the press and other media outlets are salivating for some tidbit of bvllschnitz to fob off as journalism, it is a political situation.
    Mr. Zimmerman may have made a few mistakes in his life, and a couple that the Armed Intelligentsia can point out on the night of February 26, but nothing could have prepared him for the skat-storm of reaction and media frenzy that has become day to day here.
    We all knew that he would be facing charges. He had to. It would make no difference if Trayvon Martin was carrying iced tea and Skittles or kicking him (G. Zimmerman) in the face, the outcry from the public demands blood. Will this case result in how self defense situations are judged in the future?
    As we like to say here in the land of beer farts and cheez-whiz…Youbetcha. I asked in an earlier post what members of the AI could do to insure that this kind of media circus does not have a second act, and it seems that perhaps now is a good time to re-post that query:
    What can we do to avoid this maelstrom of emotion based public outcry? The question is pointed not only at you the reader, but me the writer. I have what the voices in my own head tell me, so what of your opinions?

    • avatarST says:

      The situation has always been this way.

      All men & women who carry arms need to realize that any of us have the chance to become the next target of MSNBC and Co.

      We who carry see a bad guy in an alley who wants us dead , and react accordingly. Once the casings fall and the cops show up, the lottery lever cranks up.If your number comes up, here’s what can happen:

      The media sees an opportunistic story, in the form of a dead man of color.
      The government sees a political coup in the form of appeasing the black demographic.
      The prosecutor and DA see a crisis for their careers , being as saving their jobs requires bending the law in favor of public opinion.

      This isn’t a “George Zimmerman” problem. It happened in the 1980s with Officer Luis Alvarez of the Miami Police Department, another latino who was accused of racial assassination years before I was even born. It happened again when a lawman shot a knife wielding Vietnamese woman. The story was spun to look like the woman was holding a potato peeler; when in fact she wielded a bona fide knife.

      The press has one mission today, and that is to generate viewers at any cost. Truth and due process to them are ancient artifacts which impede the quickest path to notoriety. The media doesn’t care who is right or wrong, they care about attention.

      My take: the Media is an honest person’s worst enemy after a DGU. In the most corrupt place in America the police , District Attorneys, state officials, and defense lawyers are bound by professional codes of conduct.In the most honest place in America, wherever that is, the Media is free to lie and spin without accountability or lasting consequence.

      • avatarMark Smith says:

        There’s a good shoot and a bad shoot. This has damn near every hallmark of a bad shoot.

        Zimmerman was doing stupid stuff in a stupid place and stupid things happened. Sound familiar?

        • avatarMichael B. says:

          And you’re posting stupid ****. Do you know what happened exactly? The full police report hasn’t even been released yet and I doubt THEY know for sure.

        • avatarRopingdown says:

          Mark Smith, I’d be curious to know how you’d define a “good shoot.” If getting a nose-breaking punch that lands you on your back, and then (as a witness reported) being sat upon and having your head beat against concrete (with the long gash to prove it) is a bad shoot, a good shoot must require arising from the dead three days later before you draw, or drawing while in a coma?

        • avatarMark Smith says:

          That’s what Zimmerman claims. I’m 52 feet tall and blue. Believe me?

          The police can testify to the extent or non-extent of Zimmerman’s injuries. Until they do, I don’t put much faith in that story.

          That said, it doesn’t excuse running a total stranger down on property that’s not yours when there hasn’t been a darn thing to prompt such actions.

          I’ll admit, I’m basing my reasoning on gut instinct from what little I can gather of the facts. It smells to high heaven to me.

          Maybe it’s not what it looks like. I doubt it. I suppose we’ll see.

        • avatarMadDawg J says:

          I’ll admit, I’m basing my reasoning on gut instinct from what little I can gather of the facts I don’t want to ignore.

          Fixed.

        • avatarMark Smith says:

          Fact: There are claims Zimmerman was injured.

          Fact: On the video, either his injuries are extraordinarily mild or not visible to the human eye.

          Fact: Zimmerman left his car, went onto someone else’s property and killed a man.

          Fact: If I chase down a police officer and kill him out of the sight of any witnesses, how well would I fare if the police officer threw the first punch? Answer: I’d be in jail for second degree murder, first punch being the officer’s or no. It’s just *my* word.

          How often do you trust the defendant’s words when he’s the only witness?

          Fact: Not often.

        • avatartdiinva says:

          You seem to be relying on the discredited ABC news doctored version of the video. FYI ABC news pulled the fuzzy video and replaced it with the high res verson where you can distinctly see the damage done to Zimmerman’s skull.

          You are the poster child for a MSM dupe.

        • avatarMark Smith says:

          Or you’re the poster child for a groupthink dupe. We all have our opinions, and you’re welcome to yours, no matter how wrong it is :P

        • avatarMikeS says:

          So in other words, Mark, you haven’t any better idea than the rest of us. You’re just much surer of what happened.

        • avatartdiinva says:

          Another guy who needs to run down to Florida to give his statement to the police.

        • avatarP.M. says:

          Mark smith is the same guy that said he should have touched his wounds while handcuffed, his opinion is pretty much void after that show of inteligence.

      • avatarJBS says:

        The Zimmerman situation reflects the basic fact that gun owners are a persecuted minority. Just as blacks in the Jim Crow south and Jews in 1930s Germany, we must learn to keep our head down and assume the worst until we are in a strategic position to assert our just rights.

        • avatarNCG says:

          Funny you should make this connection. I would say you go more than a bridge too far – gun owners do face discriminiation, but nothing like Jim Crow, or Nazi Germany.

          However, it get’s to the point of the racial beef – white people have killed (and otherwise abused) black people with nearly complete impunity for the last 400 years, and only in about the last 50 years have things improved much.

          I know this has nothing to do with Zimmerman or any other particular case, but don’t think that the outrage is purely a result of media hype. There is a heavy load of history here.

        • avatarkarlb says:

          Unfortunately, this is far too true.

        • avatarMichael B says:

          Be that as it may, it doesn’t justify the media malpractice that has helped stoked the ugly embers of hatred into blazing fires.

          They must be held responsible for their lies that have dealt a serious blow to race relations in the state of FL and around the country.

        • avatarJBS says:

          Discrimination is despicable in itself, not just because it leads to greater atrocities. The Jim Crow practices of requiring Blacks to ride in the back of the bus, use separate washrooms, and not eat at Woolworth lunch counters may seem trivial at first glance, but they were designed as marks of inferiority. The underlying issue is that some flaunt their elite status by demeaning others.

        • avatarRoger says:

          Bull****.

          Neither blacks in the Jim Crow south or Jews in 1930s Germany had a multibillion dollar military industrial complex to lobby for their interests.

          Concealed carry is now more widespread and easier to do than it has ever been in US history. And I say this as a CCW holder.

  28. avatarTHE TRUTH says:

    I, for one, am glad about it. I whole-heartedly believe in 2A and self-defense. I don’t think this case is anything about self-defense. I think it’s about a cop wanna-be.

    If you think it’s wrong, would you like your kids to have been in the same situation??

    • avatarMr Pierogie says:

      I think he judged TM to be suspicious and wanted to check him out. But was that the right decision? Did he take it too far? I think we all know the answer to that. So if they want to prosecute him, go ahead, BUT: will they also prosecute the Black Panthers for setting a bounty on GZ’s head? How is that not criminal behavior? Or Spike Lee giving out his (wrong) address, so that the angry mob can go and do administer some vigilante justice? If you think GZ should go to jail, well, he ain’t the only one.

  29. avatarbontai Joe says:

    One positive thing from charging Zimmerman is that it will temporarily satisfy the blood lust of the people that demanded something be done RIGHT NOW! It buys time for tempers to cool down, and lowers the chance of revenge attacks on Zimmerman’s family for the time being. In short, it diffuses the situation at least for now. The trial probably won’t happen for a year, and by then, Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson will have moved on to other stuff.

  30. avatarTexas Colt carry says:

    Besides the problem of GZ getting a fair trial from an un-biased jury, which I doubt that there is anyone that hasnt heard about this and formed an opinion. The anti-gun politicians are pileing on to the “I told you so” retoric and now screaming to change the SYG laws and castle laws in the states that have them.

    No matter GZs outcome, and I hope for the best for him and the whole truth to come out. But the far reaching results is going to be against the rest of us by making anyone a criminal for defending ourselves. Because of this we are looking down the throat of British law, where the criminal and/or intruder has more rights in the end.

  31. avatarChuck says:

    Was anyone else appalled by Angela Cory’s “press conference”?

  32. avatarJBS says:

    I see one point that has not been noticed: punching in the nose is a deadly attack. Here is what the U.S.Army Manual of Hand-to-Hand Combat says: “When attacking the nose, strike a forceful blow with the knife edge of your hand across the bridge (fig. 9). This blow can easily break the thin bone, causing your opponent extreme pain and temporary blindness. A sharp blow could drive bone splinters into your opponent’s brain and kill him instantly. You could also use the outside edge of your closed fist. When fighting at close quarters, attack the nose by hitting the bottom of it an upward blow with the heel of your hand.”
    If there is evidence that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, this is conclusive evidence that he suffered a potentially attack justifying a forceful response.

    • avatarliquidflorian says:

      This! All the dumb stuff GZ may or may not have done is mitigated by Treyvon cold cocking him, then trying to smash his skull on the pavement. Treyvon would be a live and well if he had called the cops or gave GZ an “F*** You” and walked away.

  33. avatarTexanHawk says:

    Has anyone noticed that the POTUS has been silent on this issue since his “If I had a son” missive? I suspect (not FACTS just suspicion):

    1. He’s actually been briefed on the facts of the case and decided he shoulda kept his mouth shut in the first place because none of the non-politicians in the case thought the facts supported an arrest.

    2. He actually believes that any comment on the case by him is prejudicial and inflammatory and he shoulda kept his mouth shut in the first place.

    • avatarrosignol says:

      I suspect that between “If I had a son…” and his comments RE the USSC someone has had a quiet talk about what does and does not improve his re-election prospects.

      At least someone is finally giving him good advice.

  34. avatarJohn D says:

    All things considered the one thing I can say about this is that Zimmerman exercised poor judgement when he left his vehicle. Does that mean he is guilty of murder? I don’t know. Lets hope that he gets a fair trial.

  35. avatarSteve says:

    I don’t know if this is anything new, but it is a 34 min compilation of 911 calls from the incident. It is interesting to hear in the callers’ own words what they saw.
    About 2/3′rds of the way thru it is marred by a long call by a hysterical woman who is talked down by the 911 operator.

    It sounded to me like GZ stopped chasing TM after being told by the operator to do so. The wind noise stopped & GZ seemed to stop breathing quickly.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fEKnZj98Rs

    Note not to click on the link in the description as it goes to a porn site. It appears they’re using the vid to advertise unfortunately.

  36. avatarRyan says:

    George Zimmerman could be any one of us. I just donated to him. I found his legit website via Clayton Cramer: http://claytonecramer.blogspot.com/2012/04/george-zimmermans-web-page.html

  37. avatarpcrh says:

    They can get him for second degree murder. All the prosecutor has to do is convince the jury that Zimmerman is lying about who started the physical fight. If Zimmerman grabbed or punched Martin first, and Martin then got the better of Zimmerman (i.e., knocked him down etc., which is still consistent with the grass stains/injuries), then they can get him for second degree murder. Note, there are no witnesses to who actually started the fight.

    If the jury believes Zimmerman is the first one who got physical, he’s toast.

    • avatarGuywithagun says:

      This is what you call “nonsense”. Starting the fight and murder have nothing to do with each other. It’s about self defense. Even if you start a fight but quit attacking and the other person is now the aggressor you still have a legal right to defend yourself. If he believed he was in danger of great bodily harm then he would be justified in the use of deadly force.

      • avatarpcrh says:

        Agreed, if you break off the attack and the other person restarts combat, they become the aggressor. But if you start a fight and start to lose and decide to draw your gun, you’re in line for a murder charge.

        I am not arguing that is what happened. I have no idea what happened. But if I were the prosecutor, that is the narrative I would go for. And it is not unrealistic that a jury would go along. I’ve been on a jury. I never ever want to be judged by one. One jury member actually said during deliberations, “They wouldn’t have charged him if he weren’t guilty.” (Except that jury member did not properly use the subjunctive mood…)

        • avatartdiinva says:

          Agreed on the prosecution strategy but a good defense attorney will shred this line of attack. Ms. Corey will have to sell the fact that an Martin was an innocent kid without a violent bone in his body. Zimmerman’s side getsto introduce Martins three suspensions — for probably theft, drugs and tagging (a gangsta favorite) — plus his gangsta tats and his gold teeth. It won’t be hard to impress more than enough jurors that gangsta Trayvon saw in Zimmerman someone who he could take him to get a hung jury Events proved that Trayvon was right because he was beating the crap out of Zimmerman right up to the point where he got shot.

          A conviction on Murder 2 just isn’t in the cards. Perhaps she could have sold manslaughter on the basis that Zimmerman’s conduct was reckless enough to cause Martin’s death whether he started it or not. I don’t know if Florida law allows the jury to convict on manslaughter in lieu of Murder 2 or only gives them a take it or leave it choice.

          When the only choice is a punishment that doesn’t seem to fit the crime juries will tend to acquit. (i.e., Casey Anthony)

        • avatarpcrh says:

          Ms. Corey will have to sell the fact that an Martin was an innocent kid without a violent bone in his body.

          I think she’ll just have to argue that Zimmerman threw the first punch. That would justify Martin fighting back.

          Zimmerman’s side getsto introduce Martins three suspensions — for probably theft, drugs and tagging (a gangsta favorite)

          Not sure, but prior arrests like that may be inadmissable. Zimmerman had no idea what Martin’s priors were, so they could not have affected his decision. Prejudice >> probative value.

          I think the prosecution just has to convince the jury that Zimmerman started the fight, and when things started to go against him, he pulled a gun and fired. You don’t get to pick fights with people then shoot them when they fight back.

          NOT saying that is what happened, or that the prosecution will or should or should not win. Just that a conviction on murder is not out of the question.

  38. avatarRalph says:

    I’m glad that I’m immune from Zimmermanization. For one thing, I’m old enough to be in a legally protected class in Massachusetts. Any crime against me is more criminaler than the exact same crime committed against most of you. This is one of the few benefits of aging. Secondly, I only plan on shooting bad white guys who come at me with something truly dangerous, such as a knife, a gun or a copy of the Democratic Party Platform.

  39. avatarSanchanim says:

    I just saw live video of the arraignment. Can anyone comment who is a doctor on what a broken nose should look like. I only ask because I saw no bruising around the nose or eyes, and he didn’t even have a bandage or anything on his nose, and it didn’t look swollen.

    • avatarpcrh says:

      I am not a doctor. But if the arraignment was recent, then his wounds have probably healed. The incident happened a couple months ago.

    • avatarGuywithagun says:

      Really??? What does a broken nose look like? He’s probably mostly healed by now man.

      His doctor will produce the x-rays when the time comes to present it at trial, or not.

      • avatarSanchanim says:

        I was just asking is all geez..
        I didn’t know what the heal time was or if there should be any prolonged affects etc. Like I said I was asking not lynching him from the nearest tree.
        To that end though if he did have a deep wound in his head, and a broken nose, aren’t the police required to take him to the hospital first? Like I said I am asking what is proper procedure. If he was questioned and released in a couple of hours then maybe he told them he didn’t want to go and then went the next day which is what was reported.

  40. avatarSanchanim says:

    The prosecution has released an affidavit claiming the following.
    An affidavit of probable cause in Florida’s case against George Zimmerman for the shooting death of an unarmed 17-year-old says that the neighborhood watch volunteer “profiled” the victim, Trayvon Martin, and disregarded a police dispatcher’s request that he await the arrival of police.

    While this could be a bargaining ploy, it sounds like they feel they have credible evidence to prove he wasn’t attacked by Mr. Martin, or at least Mr. Martin was not the initiator of the attack as I think we can agree there was a physical altercation between the two at some point.

  41. The PC affidavit is available here:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/89120165/Zimmerman-Probable-Cause-Document-2

    I look at PC here (written before the PC affidavit became available):
    http://minuteoflaw.blogspot.com/2012/04/zimmerman-probable-cause-and-fs-7760322.html

    Around here in Florida, the criminal defense bar seems to think that 2nd degree murder will never happen, but Zimmerman may cop a plea to manslaughter given the threat.

    Florida’s gun law guru, Jon Gutmacher, does not think highly of how the prosecutor handled the news conference, and I tend to agree:
    http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspot.com/2012/04/sure-shes-not-biased-bs.html

  42. avatarBob says:

    MSNBC coverage has been horrible. Yesterday they had someone say that “he was ordered by the 911 operator to not follow”, and said it in such a way that he was disobeying the police. In fact the operator said “We don’t need you to do that.” and they do not have authority to tell anyone what to do.

    Also, today they showed a photo of Zimmerman next to a photo of 12 year old Martin.

    With the way the Sanford police chief and officers were treated, you can bet all police chiefs in the U.S. are saying to their ranks to arrest everyone who claims self defense no matter how much evidence supports the claim.

    • avatarThomas Williams says:

      MSNBC is putting the law on trial not the person that may have broken it. I have a a CCDW permit one thing that is stressed over and over in the required training is that if you use you deadly weapon you WILL most likely be charged with a crime. That’s the responsibly you take went you strap that gun on.

      • avatarSanchanim says:

        This is why training is so important. If you have good situational awareness skills and are trained to hit what you shoot at and obey the four rules, Mr. Zimmerman probably wouldn’t have gotten in to the situation to begin with.
        That being said based on the Mr. Zimmerman’s 911 call he sounds to be pretty much emboldened to stop this guy which was his first mistake. Given some of the comments he made and also the tone of voice I do believe his intentions were to detain Mr Martin at minimum. I don’t think we can say he was out to kill him or hurt him, but there is reasonable cause to say he was going to detain him.
        If they line up Mr Martin’s cell phone records with Mr Zimmerman’s I think there will be a clear time line. This would not go well for Mr. Zimmerman.
        At this point the prosecution only has to prove he had intent to stop or otherwise detain Mr. Martin even though Mr. Martin was not in the process of committing any crime and they pretty much well get a guilty verdict.

  43. avatarasdf says:

    The family keeps saying they have medical records but right now that seems like hearsay. It would just seem like evidence like that is a surefire way to help his case.

    Also, in the enhanced video that shows the gash on the back of Zimmerman’s head. If you watch the beginning of the clip, it almost looks like the cop is checking out the wound.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/robert-farago/high-definition-video-shows-george-zimmermans-head-wound/

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