Quote of the Day: Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law

“A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.” – Florida Statute 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm:

comments

  1. avatar Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

    So, did Zimmerman unlawfully detain Martin, causing him to fight back in self-defense? I guess it’s up to the grand jury to decide, as they have facts that I know I sure don’t have..

    1. avatar BC; MT says:

      I don’t think that innocence should be presumed simply because the dead party wasn’t detained. For SYG to work, it must prohibit defenders from escalating a conflict. As Zimmerman exited his vehicle and pursued Martin, it seems he escalated the confrontation. He thus shouldn’t be protected by SYG.

      1. avatar Mikeb302000 says:

        Whaaat!

        “I don’t think that innocence should be presumed…”

        1. avatar Robert says:

          OMG!!! I agree with MikeB!!!

        2. avatar Joel says:

          wow, mikeb respecting the consitution for once. thanks mike, i needed a wake-me-up.

        3. avatar Rick Reed says:

          man, somebody finally mentioned the right document the Constitution. If Zimmerman pursued just because of race then he provoked and cannot use the SYG defense. It is a good Law, but innocence must be presumed until proven otherwise.

      2. avatar Totenglocke says:

        How is walking towards someone a “confrontation”? The only fact that we know of regarding a confrontation is that the kid (who remembers that stupid ass name) had Zimmerman pinned to the ground, beating him while Zimmerman called for help.

        1. avatar bill says:

          We don’t know that Treyvon was beating Zimmerman. We do know that the screaming stopped the moment the gun went off (you can hear it for yourself) and we know from an Eyewitness that Zimmerman was straddling Treyvon’s face-down dead body.

          We also know that Zimmerman had a prejudicial attitude, he says to the call center, “these assholes always get away” and then chases Treyvon. So he prejudged that Treyvon was an “asshole” and that he was engaged in a criminal act.

          How the fuck do you come up with the idea that Treyvon had Zimmerman pinned?

          Also on the tape, Zimmerman states, “he’s running” and then Zimmerman gets out of the car and chases him to which the call center says, “we don’t need you to do that.”

          From the moment he leaves that car, he is the Aggressor. There is no other reasonable explanation.

          And how do you think that is Zimmerman screaming? The moment that gun goes off, the screaming stops. If Zimmerman had been calling for help, why would he stop?

        2. avatar gen4n9 says:

          I think “we” do know Trayvon was beating Zimmerman. There is an eye witness saying so. That same eyewitness also says it was Zimmerman screaming for help. The fact that Zimmerman had a broken nose and a gash on the back of his head, kind of backs that up.

          And there is nothing wrong with getting out of your car to following someone, for the purpose of keeping an eye on them, if you feel they are up to something. It sure the hell didn’t give Trayvon the right to attack Zimmerman.

          And I think the ringing in Zimmerman’s ears and the fact that he just shot another human being, would be a good reason for him to stop screaming.

        3. avatar Mikeb302000 says:

          Toten, I guess by now you’ve seen the video which calls Zimmerman’s story into doubt.

    2. avatar virtualjohn says:

      So far the police found no crime for which they could arrest Mr. Zimmerman. Everyone is second guessing the police.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Yes, they are, but that’s the fault of the police. The Sanford PD’s PR skills are right up there with police marksmanship.

  2. avatar Not Too Eloquent says:

    Stand Your Ground does not mean initiate confrontations and then kill when you are losing.

    1. avatar Aharon says:

      How about a nice article on knives?

      1. avatar BC; MT says:

        +1

        When this gun blog gets off topic it does knives much better than anything that intersects with racial issues.

        1. avatar Nuckingfuts22 says:

          +2 racial issues can become a slippery slope that end the end no one wins. Lets get back to shooting and testing cool guns and gear.

        2. avatar Robert Farago says:

          We’re doing that, too.

        3. avatar Aharon says:

          How about doing it one.

  3. avatar Bob says:

    What none of the gun grabbers want anyone to see — the actual law.

    1. avatar Josh says:

      Not well written enough to be honest. A law with such serious import should have some more detail in it to prevent exploitation of ambiguity by criminals.

      1. avatar Second Amendment says:

        @Josh: Then read the whole chapter. There’s lots more detail including the lack of SYG rights if one is the aggressor and provokes a fight. Statute 776.041 (and not just 776.013 cited above):
        http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.041.html

  4. avatar virtualjohn says:

    The media keep showing pictures of a 13 year old kid named Trayvon Martin. They are not showing the 6’3″,17 year old, tattooed, gold ‘grilled’, Trayvon Martin flashing gang signs, whose Twitter screen name was @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA. The one known as ‘Tray’ who sold dope and was serving a 10 day suspension from Dr. Michael M. Krop SHS. That was the reason he was staying at his father’s, a neighborhood in which the watch captain didn’t know him. The ‘Tray’ who had swung on the bus driver the week before. The ‘Tray’ who had punched and jumped on top of Mr. Zimmerman. The tubby, 30 year old, Mr. Zimmerman who had a broken nose, cut over his eye, a wet and grass-stained back. The Mr. Zimmerman who called and called for help while be beaten by someone on top of him. The Mr. Zimmerman who police reported could not stop crying and repeatedly said “No one would come help me.”
    I used to trust the justice system to sort out the truth. Now, I don’t know. The race baiting by the usual suspects is in full throat. Petitions are being signed by people with absolutely no knowledge of the facts and a dearth of brains. The Panthers have already put “Dead or Alive” posters out for Mr. Zimmerman. We have Governors, politicians of all stripes and even the President speaking about a case when they should keep their idiot comments to themselves.

    1. avatar soccerdad says:

      exactly

    2. avatar karlb says:

      They should all shut up, but we have the right to speculate wildly? I am sorry, but what was it that the president said that was wrong? Please, quote a complete idea, not just a sound-bite to show us.

      1. avatar Totenglocke says:

        I’m sorry, where did he speculate? He stated nothing more than facts about the case.

    3. avatar g says:

      “The one known as ‘Tray’ who sold dope and was serving a 10 day suspension from Dr. Michael M. Krop SHS”

      The suspension has been mentioned before by his family; he was serving supposedly for tardiness or being in a part of the school he wasn’t supposed to be in.

      “Sold dope” is a pretty serious accusation. You say the kid was a drug dealer? Sources, please. Note, police found no drugs on Martin.

      1. avatar Someone says:

        His facebook page has this on it.
        The only word I changed was offensive and should not be written on this blog.

        quote

        Mackenzie DumbRyte Baksh
        Yeoo happy birthday ! but pik up the fone of hmu we got business to talk !

        Trayvon Slimm Martin
        NO PHON

        Mackenzie DumbRyte Baksh
        damn were u at a n**** needa plant

        end quote

        The quote was written on his wall on February 5 between 4:41pm and 4:46pm.

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          I tried using Google translate to decipher the above, but it didn’t work.

      2. avatar NCG says:

        OMG, a 17 year old who uses marijuana! OMG! Open and shut case!

  5. avatar soccerdad says:

    not comfy with the New Black Panthers putting a $10K bounty on his head, nor with Spike lee tweeting Zimmerman’s address.

  6. avatar Tyler says:

    I’m not picking sides on this but I will say that BOTH parties appear to be in the wrong on this one.
    I also read earlier that in the 14 cases that the stand your ground law has been used, 13 of them were against unarmed individuals.
    I do think that the calling race into this is total b.s.
    It’s nice to know the black panthers have really mellowed out though.

  7. avatar Barstow Cowboy says:

    I have no idea what happened because I wasn’t there, and all I know about Zimmerman and Martin is what I’ve been told about them by heavily biased news sources and other special interest groups with agendas, but if one thing is clear, it’s that all those “sheepdog” types who see themselves as protectors of flock should be taking notes. If Zimmerman’s account is to be believed, all the “sheep” ignored his pleas for help when he needed them to come get Martin off of him, or at the very least to call 911, and no one is willing to come support him or come forward to the media with a version of the story that supports his version of the events. If Martin’s family members, supporters and ambulance chasers are to be believed, it serves as a great example of how wrong a “sheepdog’s” first impression of a situation can be and how terribly wrong things can go when you follow your hunches. In either case, it’s reinforced my own personal belief that I’ll stick to my own business. There’s nothing wrong with calling the police if you really see something suspicious, but you as a private citizen aren’t going to be given ANY benefit of the doubt if you initiate contact with someone you believe to be engaged in a crime and things go south, so it REALLY needs to be an option of last resort.

  8. avatar Mikeb302000 says:

    It’s a shit law. Imagine all the wonderful applications of this part.

    “or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony”

    1. avatar Someone says:

      You mean like rape?

      Yeah, it would be horrible if a woman shot and killed an unarmed man who was trying to rape her.

      Derp.

      1. avatar Joel says:

        you forget that all mikeb does is criticize… if he paid attention to the pros of anything, then hed be stumped.

        1. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          Joel, you’re contradicting yourself on this thread. You liked my comment above about the poster saying “I don’t think that innocence should be presumed…”

          But now you bitch about what I call a shit law and accuse me of only criticizing. It’s not true.
          http://mikeb302000.blogspot.it/2012/03/good-clean-dgu-if-ever-there-were-such.html

    2. avatar Second Amendment says:

      You gotta learn to read, Mikeb. “Forcible felony” is defined specifically in the law:

      776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

      You’re welcome.

      1. avatar mikeb302000 says:

        Yeah, I know. The problem is when someone looks at you funny and you perceive it as a threat. With the new law and your concealed weapon, you don’t have to back down.

        A number of the other crimes you mentioned can be easily read into normal situations. But, don’t worry now you’ve got the law on your side.

        1. avatar CarlosT says:

          I’ve never heard of someone commit a home invasion robbery or murder just by looking. Anti-gun people always bring up the “he looked at me funny” BS. Try that line and you’ll get arrested.

    3. avatar Ropingdown says:

      What? No ‘Semper Fi’, Mikey?

      1. avatar mikeb302000 says:

        What are you talking about Rope?

        1. avatar Ropingdown says:

          Your Marine days. You once said you joined the Marines at 17, remember? I thought you’d have some attachment to those days.

        2. avatar Ropingdown says:

          No humor. Nothing lame. I’m interested in how that went for you, the Marine gig. Your comments today are no biggie, but you often impute motives and attitudes to all or some of the other comment writers. You spend one era of your life cavorting with felons. You then spend another criticizing legal gun carry. You seem to flip this way and that. What is the real you? I actually don’t think you can legally purchase a gun in the US. Are you going to tell me I’m wrong? I’m curious. I also resent your deletion of comments on your own web side, together with no real bio, which bio is a common item on blogs. Well, there you have it! I’m giving you the chance to speak on these things first. I hope you notice. Michael Bonomo’s life is an open book to me. I wouldn’t mind if your comments fit with your life.

        3. avatar mikeb302000 says:

          Sounds like your developing a sick obsession with me and my personal life. What’s that all about? Is that sorta like a man-crush in reverse?

          From my perspective, what you say about guns is enough for me to disagree with and dislike. I don’t find it necessary to get into your head or your personal background. Why would I?

  9. avatar GS650G says:

    I guess we no longer need the police nor investigators, we have media, blogs and self appointed civil rights leaders that can determine innocence or guilt.

    1. avatar girlswithguns aka captain obvious says:

      +1

      The media as judge and jury only ensures that justice doesn’t stand a chance.

    2. avatar Ralph says:

      Yeah, it’s kinda ironic that the lynchees have become the lynchers.

      1. avatar Ropingdown says:

        The lynchees outdid the the lynchers many decades ago, in balance of victims murdered. There were about 1,300 lynchings in the ‘era of lynchings.’ Quite a few of the lynchees were actually white, as lynching was viewed as vigilante action against crime. In the last four decades the relative victimization of whites by blacks has far outraced the lynchings in almost every calendar year. That does not account for the history of slavery, of course. By the same token slaves were not captured by white traders in Africa. They were purchased. From blacks. For trade goods. Indeed the most famous slave trader of all was a black man from the Zanzibar coast. The colonies of North America were very late to the game. As of 1941 30% of the population in Ethiopia were slaves, freed only the following year by Haile Salassie. Remarkably, more than 40% of Koreans were slaves until an edict of 1911, not implemented until the Japanese invasion in 1931. Life is not simple. History is not what most people imagine. The best thing everyone can do is forget it and move on. That is the rule for any animal in the forest. “Forget your scars and make the best of today.” Don’t get me started on the Scandinavian slavery of ‘thralls,’ often denied to have existed. Rubbish.

  10. avatar guest says:

    From what I understand Zimmerman’s story is that he was attacked while returning to his vehicle. If that’s true then I don’t see why Florida’s SYG law is even relevant to this case.

  11. avatar Ralph says:

    Florida should eliminate it’s CCW, SYG and Castle laws so it can go back to the good old days when it was the murder capital of North America.

    1. avatar Michael B. says:

      The antis here and nationwide would love for things to return to those “good ol’ days.”

      Me? I’d move to another country to get away from the criminal element here. Your state is just one media controversy away from you winding up with no rights at all, even due process.

  12. avatar NCG says:

    One thing about the SYG law, it seems that you could have a situation in which to parties shot or otherwise attacked each other, and both were justified. The one who survives tells the tale.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      And that would be different from any other law how?

      1. avatar NCG says:

        True. It only becomes relevant when one party has a gun and one doesn’t. Most bar fights (or high school fights, for that matter) are an excercise in consensual violence. Shit is talked, shoving ensues, blows are exchanged, both parties declare victory, hopefully it doesn’t happen again soon, because it really, really hurts to get hit hard in the face. Usually for both people, hands are often broken.

        1. avatar Ropingdown says:

          NCG, I’d have to call bull on most HS fights being consensual. I was in lots of them, and never consented. In my experience some punk came up and picked a fight, hit me a time or two and then I beat him up. I didn’t want to. I was (really) always worried I’d injury the guy seriously. Horrible years in that way. I never talked s__t with any of them. It usually turned out they wanted to date my girlfrined, or try and put a notch on the belt. Idiots. I was a wrestler and not small.

    2. avatar Michael B. says:

      Mutual combat isn’t covered under SYG or self-defense laws. Read the Florida statutes.

      And neither party would be justified in that case.

      1. avatar CarlosT says:

        Right, but what I think he was trying to say was that the surviving party could claim he was the only one attacked, and thereby claim self defense. The thing is, if there are any self defense laws at all, that could always happen, so stand your ground is irrelevant. Even with duty to retreat, you could try to claim there was no time to retreat and try to claim self defense that way.

        1. avatar Michael B. says:

          Yep. Anyone can claim anything. The state has to prove them wrong.

        2. avatar NCG says:

          Dead men make no claims. Though they do stir up a heap of trouble.

      2. avatar NCG says:

        Michael, I’m not rushing to read the Florida statutes, but I get your point. I’m saying, it gets pretty damn fuzzy around the edges.

  13. avatar David Oglesby says:

    The tragic lost life of a 6’3″ football player can never be recovered.The victim had his nose broken, cuts on the back of his head and grass stains on his back! Treyvon Martin was old enough to put George Zimmerman on his back he was old enough to take a bullet! TREYVON MARTIN GOT JUSTICE!!!!!

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