An email from a TTAG reader who experienced a DGU at a Windy City train station has generated a lot of traffic and discussion. Here’s a comment from a Chi-town cop:
“I’m glad that you were not harmed during your encounter on that “L” platform. Yes, CTA does have some very, very good video surveillance on their platforms, buses. Sad part is that if those 3 mutts had called the Police, we would have to check it (and you if still on the scene ) out. Don’t believe the BS that having a firearm in a fanny pack is having it in a container (such as in a vehicle). Also if there are any rounds in that gun, magazine, chambered or any combo of both, that gun is loaded. Being a 26 yr. Chicago Police Officer, currently a Detective, I’ve investigated, responded to more homicides, shootings, robberies than I could ever count. Although I am sympathetic to you (and other law abiding citizens) as to carrying concealed, I would have no option not to arrest . . .
First off instead of just thinking “concealed” think “covertly concealed.” The gun may be really hard to get at, but it may keep you out of jail for that one time someone spots it on you. Another thing, if you have to pull that gun, keep it at your side , barrel pointed down, until the last instant that you may have to shoot. If you did this in your encounter, this would lend credence to your version .vs their version that “he pointed that gun at me.”
As far as being arrested with a gun. You do have the right to remain silent, but remember that only leaves me with one version of what went on. Your version will come out during your felony trial. Once arrested, I would interview all parties involved, then contact the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Felony Review Unit. They will ultimately make the decision of to charge you criminally with a felony (having only one side of a story presented, they will).
Next roll of the dice is what judge you will get at a bond hearing (you will sit in Cook Co. Jail until then). He may give you a $5000 or $500,000 bond, which you will have to come up with 10% cash to get out of County, or sit until your trial, which can be over a year down the road. If convicted, even though you may only get probation, you are now a felon. The FF job is gone. Believe me if I responded to your incident , and found out you were a FF on his way to work, I would do everything in my power (which I will not get into on a public blog) to keep you from an arrest.
But realize that some of these options may jeopardize my and my partner’s jobs. If you keep in your head that the ONLY time that gun comes out is when you HAVE to shoot, you may be fine. Not pulling it when you are apprehensive or scared. Again, your freedom and job will depend on #1 who the Police are that show up on the scene #2 Detectives investigating your incident #3 which Cook Co Asst. State’s Attny answers the phone #4 what judge is sitting on the bench the day of your bond hearing #5 what judge and / or jury is in that courtroom for your trial.
The gun laws are what they are in this State and I don’t see them being voluntarily changed anytime soon. Just be smart, only do what you have to to defend yourself, and don’t do something “to prove a point.” Believe me, myself and many other coppers are on your side, but can only do what the law allows us to.”
This makes Chicago great even if the gun laws stink.
http://www.tastesofchicago.com/
No. There’s little in Chicago that people don’t do better somewhere else.
If I must live in a city with shitty gun laws, I’ll go to New York (at least it actually IS a world-class city) or even Washington, DC in a heartbeat instead of Chicago.
“Also if there are any rounds in that gun, magazine, chambered or any combo of both, that gun is loaded.”
That’s something I’ve always thought of as bullshit. Regardless of what you say, or what a law says, unless there is a round in the chamber, the gun is not loaded.
I don’t care if there’s a round in a magazine, or a round within reach of a gun with a magazine nearby. If there’s not a round chambered, it’s not loaded. Period.
I think that’s some “common sense” law-changing the 2A-supporting community should get behind.
Nice post, but I couldn’t help but notice the blatant double-standard where government employees get preferential treatment, not because they’re somehow better people than us regular folks, but simply because they are government employees (FF) like cops.
You caught that, did you?
UUW is Unlawful Use of a Weapon. It covers a lot of ground. Anything from a loaded gun to shooting it off to just transporting it incorrectly.
All three times I was arrested, it was Downstate Illinois. The first time was a County sherriff, then Town cops, and a different County Sherriff the third time.
All traffic stops. Two in parking lots, and I only gave consent to search the first time.
For a short time UUW was a felony. I was indicted by a grand jury on a felony charge. It was dropped, but the indictment is still on my record.
I had the law and even the page number of the law memorized, and none of the deputies would open the book to read it. (The copy of the book was in the squad car)
There is what is written, and there is what makes the police warm and fuzzy while doing their jobs.
This is why I carry a PepperBlaster as a backup, or in places where guns aren’t welcome. It looks somewhat like a firearm (mine is the black version, not fire engine red), and would-be assailant would probably back off upon seeing it, much like the Chicago FF’s gang did.
Chicago, New York, Washington D.C. – These are places that are as American as…… Moscow.
I (or my wallet) will not be visiting any in my lifetime. If I want to see a communist country, there are far better options.
If I want to see a communist country, there are far better options.
Yes — almost any college in America. Communism never died, it just moved to the US, wrote a thesis and got a teaching job at Berkley.
“Believe me, myself and many other coppers are on your side, but can only do what the law allows us to.”
What a whiny b!tch.
He swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, didn’t he? If the law required him to rape whoever he arrested, would he have the same sick attitude he exhibits here? Arrest and felony prosecution for exercising your fundamental human right to self-defense against a violent attacker is worse than rape, because it goes on for month after month, year after year.
“I was just following orders” didn’t cut it at Nuremberg, and it doesn’t cut it today. If “many other coppers” are on the side of fundamental human rights and the Second Amendment, then they should stand up against the abusive prosecutors and uphold their bloody oaths, instead of kidnapping innocent people and cooperating with prosecutors in destroying their lives.
I hope this whiny b!tch of a cop sees this reply and decides to man up.
+1
I’ve carried in a fanny pack for 12 years.
I’m eager to be arrested for it and publicly extend an invite to LEOs to make an arrest.
I’m still waiting.
1983 is a beautiful thing.
John
Moral of the story: GTFOO Illinois.
The guy simply gave an assessment of the situation from a Chicago police officer’s point of view. I thought it was informative in a real world sense because he outlined his position very well in his post. I would encourage more of the same from front-liners who can add a real world of law enforcement element to this forum.
He outlined his position all right – he’s an oath-breaker who will piss on the Constitution which he swore to uphold for the sake of his precious pension. So much for “lives, fortunes, and sacred honor.”
There’s theory and then there’s reality. What the cop above detailed? That’s reality. That’s what you’ll have to deal with in Real Life, no matter how much you may not like it or wish that things were like how theory says they should be. They’re not. Best work from that assumption first.
Chicago is a crap-hole. I consider it, NYC, Los Angeles, Baltimore, Detroit and Oakland arguments in favor of thermonuclear war. D.C. is an argument in favor of neutron weapons.
Interesting how the officer never once mentioned arresting the three thugs.
A cop interviewing you is collecting evidence, nothing more. It doesn’t matter if there’s “only one side” presented. Anything you say to a cop can be used against you, but it also cannot be used FOR you.
That’s what I was thinking when the cop is exhorting the FF to tell the cops his side of the story. The cop can’t testify to the FF’s story in court – the prosecutor will raise an objection to hearsay and it would be suppressed.
“You do have the right to remain silent, but remember that only leaves me with one version of what went on.”
No. You will have the criminal’s version and my version as relayed by my attorney (and so not usable against me in court).
Don’t talk talk to the police. ESPECIALLY in a situation like this. Exercise your right to counsel.
I appreciate that the police officer is trying to explain things from his perspective. What’s galling is that the oly choice one is left with in Chicago is to die a glorious law abiding death at the hands of criminals. If you are attacked by 3 men, you are required to be helpless and to pray that either you are rescued by someone that is armed (i.e. a cop or a citizen that does not obey Chicagos mandatory helplessness laws), that somehow you don’t die, or that maybe your death will be quick and painless.
What kind of evil hell is Chicago? One where you would be punished and thrown in jail for not waiting to be subjected to those horrible choices? Where it should be common sense that a person should not have to make this kind of decision. I would ask this officer, would he want his family to have to make that choice? I think we all know what the answer is, good for thee for not for me. I’m sure the cops and political leaders families carry guns illegally (or legally via some special permit only issued to special friends of the power elite) and aren’t faced with this horrible choice of living through a violent assault and joining to prison or obeying the law and dying a violent painful death.
What an evil corrupt and insane place Chicago is where violent assaults like this one happen and anyone that defends themselves is treated as the criminal. Sheer madness.
I heard the word LAW being used and to me very loosely. what about the original LAW of this land .. you know the CONSTITUTION of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? If those so called police officers, detectives,judges, Cook Counties Attorney, and of course those Juror’s selected from the Electoriate..all have taken an oath and are responsible for defending the CONSTITUTION…..let me see. that would be ignoring the main higher law of the land for some illigal sub-kind of law..ARE YOU KIDDING ME? well lets try this … the SHERIFF is the only and highest CONSTITUTIONAL officer in the COUNTY chosen from the ELECTORATE…:that would be the VOTERS.any officer , detective , attorney, or evan a judge, could be arrested for constitutional violation of the law if they try to enforce it.. there is no higher authority in the county than the SHERIFF…period…if the sheriff fails to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES., then the next absolute last defense of our constitutional rights come from the JUROR. just one knowledgeable juror trumps any judge no matter what that judge enfers, decrees, orders or demands from the juror’s they or that one juror can nullify what ever evidence is presented regardless of public sentiment. Now that’s real power of the people for the people and by the people.. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS PEOPLE or YOU WILL LOOSE THEM to STUPIDITY and LAZY IGNORANCE!
It’s really hard these days to tell who the BG is. Cops, politicians or the guy mugging you on the ‘L.
OUTRAGEOUS STATEMENT THAT COULD GET THE POSTER IN BIG TROUBLE DELETED
I appreciate the LEOs opinion but if you look at the cases where homeowners in Chicago use a firearm to defend themselves, they aren’t charged.
Dean says:
March 26, 2012 at 06:30
I appreciate the LEOs opinion but if you look at the cases where homeowners in Chicago use a firearm to defend themselves, they aren’t charged.
You were saying?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-elderly-man-shoots-burglar-in-englewood-both-charged-20120326,0,3175723.story