TTAG writer Brad Kozak was right: the mainstream media was wrong. On Saturday, the press rushed to report that spree killer/would-be political assassin Jared Lee Loughner used an “automatic rifle” to carry-out his heinous crime. The image above is from Loughner’s Facebook page, deleted within minutes of the attack. It shows his Glock 19 with a standard mag (15 rounds of 9mm ammunition). ABC confirmed that the nine-millimeter caliber weapon was purchased legally from Sportsman’s Warehouse [below] in Tucson Arizona on November 30th . . .
The Director of the FBI and the Pima County Sheriff held a press conference this afternoon in which they revealed that Loughner fired 31 bullets. He did so from a thirty-round magazine (the “extra” bullet was stored in the chamber of the gun). This explains both the duration of the shooting (around 15 seconds) and the carnage caused. Here’s a video of a shooter firing a Glock 19 with a thirty-round magazine.
Notice how the bullet holder hangs out of the gun at the bottom, making concealment significantly more difficult. Also note that although this shooter starts firing at a fairly slow pace, he empties the gun within ten seconds. With a constant rate of fire, a Glock 19′s 33-round magazine’s done in around seven seconds.
The FBI said that Loughner had a second thirty-round magazine, and two standard mags (15 rounds apiece). I make that 91 bullets. The law enforcement officials lauded three individuals — at least one of whom was shot herself — for tackling Loughner to the ground before he could re-load his Glock with the second thirty-round magazine.
Inevitably, gun control advocates will ask why anyone needs a 30-round magazine. Why shouldn’t “high capacity magazines” be banned—as they are in CA and MA—by federal fiat? Because the same firepower that Loughner unleashed on innocent victims could save the life of an innocent person armed with a Glock 19 with a 30-round magazine when faced by an assailant or assailants. Sad, but true.
[Click here for a look at the debate over high-capacity magazines.]
Guns are not the problem. Criminals like this just find guns sexy to use for their task. If not available, it is easy enough to use a pipe bomb or flame thrower … both very easy to make — or just push them out a window. Go ahead, tackle someone with a flame thrower, or a bomb, coffins for those heros. The whackos in this country just havent graduated to the ole dynamite vest yet but get rid of guns and it will be just around the corner. We’ll be buying gas, clorox, amonia, tide, from the pharmacist like sudafed. … Then what, we’ll want our guns back.
How about if these politicians STOP cutting mental health costs. They find it easy lately to cut the facilities and personnel in these fields during tough economic times. They are also cutting the special schools for young kids that commit crimes in school and are expelled. Alternative schools these children are all thats left for them, but lately, they are on the chopping blocks as they can no longer afford them. Where do these folks wind up? The 6 o’clock news.
WHY do we keep hearing this “just as easy” argument — that the bad guy could have done the same thing with a butcher knife or dynamite or whatever else? These guns are designed to be as convenient and lethal as possible. Or does anyone expect to see, “The Pentagon announced today that front-line troops will instead be issued knitting nweedles, because used properly they are just as effectyive as rifles.” Plan your mass murder using readily-accessible weapons and get back to me. I just bet you’ll choose guns, and I commend the choice — guns are the best tools for the job. If you could buy a full-auto weapon or fragmenting bullets or a rocket launcher, you’d add that, too. Let’s just drop the “guns aren’t more effective” baloney. Centuries of innovation have focused on making them just that.
I agree completely on paragraph #2. The cuts in spending and lack of education on mental health issues are costing us plenty. This kid was pretty obviously a mess, the last person you’d want to … hand a gun to.
Excellent point.
I’ve seen several commenters in this forum refer to bomb-making. But making a bomb isn’t as easy as they suggest; there’s a lot of skill and expertise involved that’s simply not present in your everyday criminal or whackjob.
Actually, making improvised explosive devices is extremely easy. This is evidenced by the fact that even uneducated religious extremists (people who are essentially goat herders) make explosives all the time in Afghanistan. Domestically, we hear stories all the time about teens getting caught building bombs (google it, if you don’t believe me). The only thing an idiot really needs to build a bomb is internet access. (not that I’m arguing for internet censorship)
A few points to consider. First, high-capacity magazines are a must-have for any reliable defense of home, person or property. Six bullets is simply not enough, especially if your assailant is armed with a high-capacity magazine. Second, Gun Control advocates are driven by an often ignored agenda . . . power. Using public safety as an excuse, their agenda shares a common thread with any other progressive agenda . . . the expansion of state power. The reasoning is simple: if you are disarmed and can’t defend yourself, then “presto” – another excuse to expand the bank of government jobs via the need for more police. And oh yeah, in case you think I’m a “nut” – I’m a police officer who is wholeheartedly a supporter of 2nd amendment rights.
And by the way, had there been an armed citizen in the crowd, Jared Loughner may not have been able to shoot as many people, and our government would have been spared the expense of putting him on trial.
And in AZ, suprised there wasn’t an armed citizen there. Just like in that Florida shooting a few weeks ago. The security guy pegged him a good one before he got any further.
Not sure I’d carry my legal concealed carry firearm to a rally but may consider it after seeing this go down. The government trained me well to use it in the military … and I did swear to defend this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. And like many I keep up my skills in a safe and legal manner at the gun range.
there were at least 7 people there with guns. There were probably more, but those are just the ones who reported it. They didn’t have time to react because of the type of weapon he chose. So, your theory is out the window.
Actually there was one person there with a gun and he was one of
the individuals who tackled Loughner. He said it was quicker and
safer to tackle him because of his proximity and the density of the
crowd/bystanders. Try using facts before spewing lies. 7 people?
That is as fraudulent as statements come.
The very last sentence of the article is just ridiculous. Just look at other countries where the owning of weapons is restricted: there aren’t even half as much rampages as in the US!
Pingback: Jared Loughner's Glock. | elephant journal
I have been to Sao Paulo Brazil, where guns are illegal. My wife is from there. I was shocked to see how people must live in Brasil. There are NO FRONT yards visible from the street, Everyones home is behind a 15 foot wall. You drive down street after street and all you see are walls of various materaials and design. Every so often a guard booth is built into the walls (if you can afford one). The tops of the walls have barb wire and television cameras to monitor the outside wall to see if someone is there before you come our from behind the wall. Where there are windows on buildings they are all gated up and railed over. Why? because the bad guys HAVE GUNS. There are hostage takings daily by men with guns. Now, is this what we want for ourselves. I invite anyone in favor of gun control to visit this city.
Fellas- this is the USA: there is no such thing as too much (pay) or too many (rounds in a magazine). Here, we live in an “I want”, not an “I need” society, anything else is un-American. Period.
To “john” (the illogical one):
A) When the UK and Australia banned firearms, there rates of violent crime per capita shot through the roof (knifings, rape, assault and murder). Currently, the most violent country in the developed world is: Scotland (part of the UK). Personally, I’d rather have a gun to defend myself with than by a sheep waiting for slaughter.
B) You seem to think that somehow, if we made it illegal for good, law-abiding citizens to possess firearms, that would have prevented this particular miscreant Loughner from possessing a handgun. Gee, marijuana’s been illegal longer than even Loughner’s father has been alive, let alone Jared. Did that prevent him from smoking pot “hundreds of times”?
I don’t know anything about you other than what you write here. But what you write makes you seem like an idiot.
Typos are now corrected (call me a perfectionist):
To “john” (the illogical one):
A) When the UK and Australia banned firearms, their rates of violent crime per capita shot through the roof (knifings, rape, assault and murder). Currently, the most violent country in the developed world is: Scotland (part of the UK). Personally, I’d rather have a gun to defend myself with than be a sheep waiting for possible slaughter.
B) You seem to think that somehow, if we made it illegal for good, law-abiding citizens to possess firearms, that would have prevented this particular miscreant Loughner from possessing a handgun. Gee, marijuana’s been illegal longer than even Loughner’s father has been alive, let alone 22 year-old Jared. Did that prevent him from smoking pot “hundreds of times”?
I don’t know anything about you other than what you write here. But what you write makes you seem like an idiot.
Some corrections: Though it has been reported that the miscreant used 31 round magazines, they are actually 33 round magazines. The 33 round Glock factory mag intended for the fully automatic Glock 18 also fits all other 9mm Glock pistols (including the miscreant’s G19). The confusions exists because though the extended length magazine holds 33 rounds, the indicator holes on the back of it are just marked to 31. I own a bunch of these mags and I can tell you, they hold 33 rounds. If the miscreant just loaded 31 rounds into his mags, his ignorance has possibly saved 2 lives (or more considering how penetrative 9mm bullets can be).
Although this is a major tragedy, some of the new proposed laws are jusut crap. What are they thinking? Well I understand the feeling of needing to do something, bute come’on! No Loaded weapons within 1000 feet of an Elected official? Seriously? This guy planned on committing murder! Do you really think he cares about a felony charge of a weapon within 1000 feet of Gifford with that intent? All that law would do is restrict the possibility of a Law-Abiding citizen to protect that elected official. And banning a High Capacity Magazines? Seriously again? What would that accomplish? Bad Guys will ALWAYS get superior weapons (even if illegal, they don’t care about the laws, they are criminals) and the only thing these laws do is put law enforcement and Law Abiding citizens in a posisition to be OUTGUNNED by Bad Guys!!!
Pingback: Guns, guns, guns, guns … | ***Dave Does the Blog
why were the at least 7 people at the scene of the shooting who were armed with guns unable to stop him? Are you saying that if they were all carrying Glock 19s with 30-round magazines, they would have??? You people are ridiculous. Go look at the stats from countries who have strict gun laws. Almost no one there gets killed by guns. In fact, their murder rates in general are a minute fraction of ours. The facts don’t back up your skewed logic.
Pingback: Quando os inimputáveis compram armas « Ma Ke Jeto, Mosso
Don’t blame the inanimate magazine. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Gun or no gun, the guy obviously was focused on a specific target and was going to do whatever he could to murder that target, a gun just happened to be most convenient way I guess in his mind. Hell he could have shot her with a crossbow and killed her, a knife, a small explosive, etc. I’m pretty sure guns are here to stay for good, the USA made it a constitutional right for god sakes and projectile firing weapons have been around for thousands of years. Its funny how people want to put all the blame on a lifeless piece of metal machinery. They don’t realize, as sad as it is, that by them keep referring to the murder weapon as a Glock, there giving the company free publicity and increasing sales. And if you don’t think so read a little history about when the glock was introduced to the US market back in the 80′s, and all the controversy surrounding it.
This is at least not the most uniformed or badly writtened or reasoned blogs I Have seen, but having spent quite a bit of time in Brazil the last 7 years, your observations
about the country astound me….this is of course to that person who wrote about the
illegality of guns in Brazil….
if you think that is the nature of the security problems in that country, I think you need a wider perspective and more information…..like understanding what having 1% of the population in a country guaranteed perpetual rights to run the country for their
own benefit at the expense of the others can create….
that and 20 years of military rule, including torture of anyone who rebelled Against the authority of the GUNS are LAW people in power, has made NO ONE call a cop for anything…almost….
It is generally known fact many of the guns on the street are sold to criminals by the Military Police, who are allowed to buy 1 gun every 2 years? so they supplement their poor wages like most poorly paid people with little authority, in countries, where cops can’t bust rich people because they will lose their job, and the laws, if enforced at all are on the poor who have learned better than to even think of justice for their class, so always create underground economies, complete with personal justice and bosses. everyone in every class has a reason to want a weak government there, and it seems a mystery to everyone THEY are the ones who have lost the country to no government chaos….
the rich don’t want government so they can cheat on taxes and not be restricted by wage and health worker laws, or to run banks that charge 6% a MONTH on credit cards(365%~ if you miss a payment) with little restriction on anythingfinancial….
then complain about the poor confronting them on the street to steal their wallet and no cops to stop it… so if they are rich enough they hire their own guns, who are with them always…..
but they have underfunded the cops forever, until recently……and if you think the public schools suck here, you should have someone show you what they claim are schools for those not fortunate enough to go to private school…..
if you spend time there you will find out the myth about businessman’s freedom creating jobs….(except for their sons..)
and what NO so called “Death taxes” results in.. hint…..it isn’t a stronger country)…
You can believe all you want that you are protecting your families by being gun owners, but you must know that is just to simplistic to be true…of course you don’t, but I can dream 8-)…..without justice for a majority of even the minorities, in the lowest places in a society, your guns won’t help….if those born on second base don’t respect the “little” people who clean their toilet and make their food or wash their cars, society will rot from the foundation and it won’t matter how much the middleclass has been taught to envy the rich from PR on TV….why should a rich man be taxed more than a poor man? one’s buying milk and shoes for his kids, and gas to get to work….the other is deciding to buy another car,boat,house, plane or ?…yeah right….expand the factory in Michigan….like all the rich get that way by creating anything, instead of just getting between producers and consumers for their own profit…..ie: commodity trader vs. farmers Wall street hedgefunds….. what does that mean anyway and why can it be done in secret but they can see my trades if I invest in stocks? They have turned you against government with the fear of losing your guns, while they steal your house and retirement with their pens, and reality shows that tell you the rich are your friends and your neighbors suck….they do but so do the rich, you just don’t have access to them to know it in the same way
we used to respect the working people of our country but it seems now many think if a man has a 55,000 sq.foot home he is a genius and somehow HONEST and just living to create JOBS….but it turns out usually overseas…anyone remember the sign they USED to have at WallyMart that claimed everything sold was US made……
we are starving in the mysteries created by cliches and generalities based on too little information and too much noise and lots of fear and hatred. Rats chewing on each others ankles, and blaming each other, while the cage handlers vacation in European
resorts, drink 200 year old brandy, and smoke Cuban cigars, while tweeting anyone who wants a fair shake for working people in the US is a socialist…..when did this happen to us…..we have been divided and conquered and as they say it seems to all be over but the shoutin’….
They amazing thing to me is most of the people I talk to, hate and look down on the countries, they seem hell bent to make ours into….Mexico..India….?? countries that have weak governments, no one paying taxes, no workers rights and few laws that anyone enforces…..1% rich who live above the law and the rest willing to work for food, or kill for you watch or wallet….it isn’t actually true but often believed and said by people promoting unresticted capitalism and the idea that that is what has made this country so great in spite of the facts being we have regulated society with the idea it is at least calming to people with little chance at success to believe there is at least so hope of equal justice….once that is gone just one more country in the heep of crap
nations where people are killing each other over the junk they bought that will become
the stuff in the garage next year makes americans park their cars in the driveway though they have the biggest garages on the planet …….. by the way
IF you want to read them, there lots of reports that conclude, close to 50% of the murder rate so famous in Brazil, turns out to be off-duty cops, who moonlight doing extra-judical killings of many times teenagers, for local businesses who don’t like the pace or outcome of court cases involving teen criminals, often times used to do crimes for adults….not hard to find willing kids on the streets who live there mostly and need money for glue to sniff….what have they got to lose is the question you have to ask, and most of us would end up the same if we were born into it….
If you doubt that you haven’t lived the life I saw when white suburban 18 year old punks like me turn into guys willing to knock out a fellow Marine’s front teeth to win a brownie, after just 2 months of being beaten and tortured by fellow americans in the name of tough training in the Tradition of the Corps…..don’t tell me
people aren’t shaped by their circustances and if people were just taught the right morals, the world would be like the beautiful all white suburb myth believed in..
people are as civilised as they can afford…..
afterall, if you guys have become gun owners to survive, you actually turned yourself into killers in spite of your values…
who do you “claim” MADE you do that? the unwashed brown hordes at your door…
In Brazil, TV shows the guns collected in the “turn in your gun for money” campaigns they hold every so often, and many weapons look to be from the Pirate era or homemade. of course not the drug gangs in Rio with full-auto and RPG’s bringing down police copters…….
Do any of you honestly think this sad boy (he was not a man) knew the people necessary to buy a gun illegally, in a well regulated gun society that had tight laws on
gun ownership?? I mean if we had one…
I think If you look at history those government who succeeded at curbing citizen freedoms at least in this hemisphere, have almost without exception, been Right-wing, Converative, gun culture, men in uniform with secret powerful people
in other countries as well as their own, that decided these low-lifes are just getting too Upp-ity….and we need to either kill them, put them in jail, or not let them speak, or gather in public…..yeah that’s the ticket…..save OUR freedom with guns….
It became necessary to distroy the city to save it….quotes like that during my time in
Vietnam made me realize you can’t stay smart if you only talk to people who agree with you…..that was confirmed for me later by living in Berkeley, Ca….most extremists
are the same and usually end up killing what they value most…..either side of any issue…..
but in general I find liberal aren’t most often looking to kill others on the way
Well I have to say this, the NRA is scary and most people do not understand the intent of the right to bear arms when it was created. It was for the purpose of feeding your family, protecing from the indians, bears, cougars… and defending oneself in a lawless society of the old expanding America. Last time I checked none of these original theories hold true anymore. Its amazing how the NRA tries to apply a old law to current times. Better have a gun or a bear will eat me???
Also, I am agreement that no one.. I mean no one needs a 30 round clip. There is NO logical reason that says you do. If anything there is logical reasons to NOT have it. One is if you have all these rounds..then one can spray and pray. Wow.. a innocent persont just got shot because you unloaded 30 rounds. It is proven that if your gun has only 10 rounds rather then 30. Your more likely going to be more careful on pulling the trigger rather then UNLOAD. WAIT.. I need my 30 round clip ..just in case the deer is packing heat!!
Another point is… why does anyone NEED to have an assult rifle OR one that looks like it??? Again, it puts you in a state of mind of RAMBO or builds your ego up. What this does you may ask.. humm more likely to go off the handle, get in situations that your not prepared to deal with, accidently kill/wound someone because you couldn’t control the weapon. Assault rifles were not only designed to be efficient killing tools, but to also put the soldier in a state of mind of power. Hutning rifles and many pistols dont do that.
The ONLY reason the high capacity round was created was for WAR. So that I can kill the enemy and more of them faster.
To prove the point.. next time go to a local gun show. pay close attention to attitude of the people carrying a normal hunting rifle. and those with a assault replica. Its scarry. The funniest thing I saw was a hunter in bright orange camo..struting around like his rambo.. with a assualt rifle look alike strapped to his back??? WTF?
Anyway, the reasons for the 2nd ammendment in its creation is not the same for current times. Also, Obama is not taking guns away, he is trying to make it safer for the US citizen. This is done by solid laws, no loop holes, and better background checks.
I mean for example, lets say there is 3 people going to a gun show. All 3 live in the same house. 1 of these 3 has a felony on his record. he doesn’t buy a gun because he can’t. However he knows person 2 has a clean record and can get one.. then end state… bad things can happen because the current background check is weak. NOW if the back ground check would say.. okay person 2 has a clean background so yes person 2 can have one. NO WAIT there is person 3 with a felony on their record. This person does live with person 2. The current law would not look at it. The NEW law would deny person 2 from having the gun UNTILL person 3 no longer lived in the same address. OR person 2 can still get teh gun but is forced to sign a contract that says if person 3 kills/robs/ or does something illegal with the gun. person 2 can go to jail for being an accomplice by allowing person 3 the opportunity to gain access to the gun.
Witnessing acts like this by criminals really upsets me…I own a glock 19 for my personal defense and the defense of the loved ones around me…now I see both sides for and against guns…in a perfect world we wouldn’t need guns…but sorry folks..this isn’t a perfect world..and until it is..the police and other professionals are still minutes away when seconds count…
Here’s how i look at it…
How many people did guns kill last year alone?
Now, how many guns went to jail last year?
Last time i checked guns don’t go to jail because an inanimate object can’t commit crimes. People commit crimes. If people want to keep backing “guns kill” bullshit, they why don’t they just put the murder weapon in jail instead and let the user go free, since he’s not responsible for shooting someone, the gun is the culprit.
Ridiculous