Capt. John Raguso keeps threatening to send us a review of Kel Tec’s smokin’ SUB-2000 9mm carbine. Today, Hi-Point Carbines drops the news that their long awaited .45 ACP rifle is ready to rock and roll. These handgun-caliber carbines may be gaining favor over the venerable 12-gauge as the weapon of choice for hom defense. And for good reason. In fact, here are four. . .
1. Less recoil than a shotgun
While home defense shotguns put an awful lot of lead downrange with a single trigger squeeze, shooters pay the price with a big ole’ wallop to their shoulder. That’s no big thing for big people who’re comfortable with firearms (who may, in fact, like the kick). And in the heat of battle, who cares? But if a gun is formidable to fire (i.e. painful), its owners are FAR less likely to practice. If they don’t, they will not be confident and accurate.
Even in .45 ACP, handgun-caliber carbines have minimal recoil, relatively speaking. The lower recoil makes the rifles far more attractive to women, teens and (let’s be honest here) small-framed men. They can also put a lot of lead downrange. BONUS! Quick mag changes are easier than reloading a shotgun.
2. Quieter than a shotgun
The state prohibitions against silencers really piss me off. (Somebody was watching way too many spy movies.) Meanwhile, shotguns are ridiculously, enormously loud. While a handgun caliber carbine will make plenty of noise, a shooter stands a chance of being able to hear something after firing—which could save their life. Comparing the two firearms genres, handgun caliber rifles will definitely reduce a shooter’s chances of permanent, perhaps even catastrophic hearing loss.
3. Better than a handgun
So’s a shotgun. But again, there are plenty of people who find shotguns intimidating. In that sense, handgun caliber carbines hit the sweet spot. Thanks to the carbines longer sight radius, they’re easier to aim than a handgun, And more intimidating (i.e. visible)
Handgun caliber carbines increase bullet speed and, thus, penetration. Hi-Point says their .45 ACP’s longer barrel increases velocity figures between 80-200 FPS (feet per second) over a like-chambered handgun.
4. Less expensive
To my way of thinking, a semi-automatic weapon is the best home defense shotgun. A good one costs the thick end of a grand. This Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine costs $330. The SUB-2000 goes for $409.
I love shotguns. But the handgun caliber carbines may be better for more people. The market will speak.
Specifications for Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine:
Price: $330 MSRP
Finish: Special high-durability black powder coat
Stock: Black molded polymer-(with standard upper and lower Picatinny rails).
Barrel length: 171/2-inches
Overall length: 33-inches
Weight: 71/2-pounds.
Magazine capacity: 9-rounds.
Sight: Adjustable front post and adjustable rear (ghost ring)
Warranty: Lifetime on parts and labor that follows the gun.
Manufacturer: Hi-Point of Mansfield Ohio-every part is made in the U.S.A.
Factory affordable options are available: Folding grip, laser, scope sight, etc.
Took my my new 995 TS out to the range. Fired over 300 hundred rounds of 9mm reloads…..no problems. Sighted in at 50 yard with the iron sights. Pulled off continued head shots on a B-27 target.
I love this weapon. Fun to shoot!! Looking forward to getting one in .45 caliber.You cannot beat the price.
I bought a hi-point .45. Where do I start sighting in to reach out to 50 yrds? Where should it be hitting at closer range? Do I start at closer range to be able to reach 50 yrds? I hope I’m asking the right questions.
I have a 45 cal carbine and right out of the box I was hitting pop cans at 35yrds while standing straight up! Very good iron sites. I recommend that you determine what you want to use it for, i.e. home defense, you should be able to shoot from the hip inside the average home. Outside, the 45 acp should be sighted in for 50yds. Beyond that range the 45′s effectiveness drops off quickly.
PLANET OF THE APES GUN
In the 1968 Charlton Heston movie the Planet of the Apes the gorillas were the soldiers of the ape race. Do you remember the carbine they used? The one they kept trying to shoot Heston with. At one point in the movie Heston’s character stated that the apes were not sophisticated enough to develop and manufacture something as intricate as a rifle. The carbine the gorillas carried looked like a monkey slapped some wood around a metal barrel and called it a gun. In fact the Hollywood props people took old US military M1, 30 caliber carbines and put some very chunky wood on the old Army carbine actions to make them look futuristic. But they still looked like apes made them. The Colonel got me a new Hi Point Model 995, 9mm carbine (www.hi-pointfirearms.com) for Christmas and at first blush it looks like a Planet of the Apes rifle. It has a one piece polymer (read plastic) stock and a shape that would make you think the designer had been watching Chuck Heston battling for his life against primates, just prior to going to the drawing board on this firearm. The Model 995 just does not look like most of the other rifles or carbines out there on the gun market. A carbine by nature is shorter and lighter then a regular battle rifle a soldier would be issued. The US military introduced their MI carbine in WW II as a substitute for the handgun. Soldiers, who needed a firearm to protect themselves from the enemy but were not in direct combat, were issued a carbine. The Marines found the M 1 carbine very handy to use in the close quarters combat of the Pacific jungles. If you have to fight your enemy up close and personal like, (say in your home at 2:00 AM) a little carbine that moves quickly in your hands in tight spaces can be a plus in keeping you alive. That is kind of how I felt about this new little Hi Point 9mm carbine. It could be of great advantage to me in an up-close encounter with the bad guy trying to destroy my family’s peaceful way of life. Yes, most rifles and shotguns in this country are purchased for hunting, most handguns are not. When I was in the retail firearms business back in the 1970s people would come into the gun shop and tell me they wanted to buy a handgun for target shooting. That is like buying a $1000 set of gulf clubs to practice for a round of miniature putt-putt gulf. People buy handguns to protect themselves but then don’t really learn to use the firearm all that proficiently. A short barreled carbine where you use two hands to operate the firearm can improve you ability to hit what you are pointing at. I am old enough to have been trained on the old Thompson sub-machine gun. The Tommy-Gun, the gun that made the “roaring 20s” roar. What I liked about the Thompson was it was short, had a pistol grip that allowed me to shoot the firearm with one hand if I placed the shoulder stock in my armpit. And that is just what I can do with my Hi Point 9mm carbine. I can use both hands for accurate firing or I can shoot it with one hand in an emergency. By the way I am not getting paid an endorsement fee for plugging this firearm. What I am trying to tell you is that it is a dangerous world and with the economy getting much worse by the day, the “have-nots” are getting more desperate. The other problem is a lot of “haves” are becoming “have-nots” and they don’t know how to fend for themselves. Violent home invasions are on the rise in this country. Do a web search on border violence in Texas or California. Don’t even think about going south of the US border right now, besides they don’t let their citizens own firearms to protect themselves. When people are stressed-out (over used phrase) they can react violently. Remember psychology 101, the fight or flight fear factor is in everyone. American men have a moral obligation to protect their family and loved ones. American women, don’t stand about with a cell phone dialing 911 and expecting someone else to save you. Both men and women need to be prepared for the wolf at the door. Assurance not insurance, you must be ever vigilant.
Major Van Harl USAF Ret.
vanharl@aol.com
At this point I wish all forums had a “like” button for posts.
I propose we start a fund to buy the good Major an “enter” key for his keyboard.
I’m in.
I just purchased a new Hi-Point Model CF380, .380 ACP. I’ve been around firearms my entire life, which is only 25 years, but have fired many, many guns. I’m and avid hunter and outdoorsman. This is not the first handgun I’ve fired, however it is the first I’ve purchased. This is a wonderful little handgun. Given its’ no Glock 9mm, for the price I paid,($190; extra clip, box of shells and lockable carrying case), it is barnone one of the best pitols I have shot. My grandfather is an avid buyer/seller/trader of guns and has a worthy collection of handguns as well as rifles of all kinds. I’ve shot everything from a Kimberly 1911 .45, to a German .9mm Ruger dated back to before WWII. In all honesty, this is not the first Hi-Point I’ve fired. My cousin has a .9mm pistol thats and older model, late ninteys model I belive, but it jams every now and again. Just yesterday I went through 300 rounds without a single jam. That’s pretty darn good for a brand new gun. I’m thrilled with my new purchase and I hope that anyone reading this takes heed to investing in one of these guns if you’ve not already. Great little self-defense weapon for the house and a nice little gun for my hip while on long hunts.
I have 3 Hi Points
45 and 9 hand guns and the 9 carbine–great guns–my 84 yr old mom loves to shoot the carbine–they shoot dirty or clean ammo–u put it in and they shoot them out. get used to sights and they hold their own anywhere
I retired from the Army, spent 1968-69-70-71 on the ground in sunny Vietnam, and
did another 20 in Law Enforcement.
While in Viet Nam, I had an M14a1 ,which I miss dearly, an early M16 that I refused to carry after the first dance with Charles. (VC , Bad guys). i “aquired: an M1 carbine that jammmed more the the M16, and then found the “girl of my dreams”, an M3a1,
Grease Gun!! It never jammed, ate all the dirt, sand, and mud it was fed, was not picky about her make up.. A shower, dip in a rice paddy every now and then,
and she was happy.
The only other weapon I have ever owned that is even close to her is my 9mm HiPoint carbine. I wanted to see if the lady was all she was made out to be, and she was. I fired over 500 rd. of assorted ammo thru her, then sprayed the action with the garden hose.
After a week or so, I began firing several hundred more rounds thru her over a period of a few months, with NO maintenence.No Problem. I was impressed. That was a couple of years and several hundred rounds ago. To this day, I twice sprayed the action with carb cleaner, punched the bore, and wiped her down with a light coat of oil. That’s it. If HiPoints came with 50rd stick mag and selector switch, I’d take her to any dance. (Along with an M3a1).You can spend a lot more, and get a lot less!!
have a 4095 in camo excellent defense/plinker FMJs work best
it dont like JHPs light,handy,comfortable and affordable
reliable enough to get to my AK
good shooting
I bought a 40 cal Hi Point rifle several years ago when it first came out. I don’t know how many 100′s of rounds I have put thru it but I gotta be honest I would not take for that gun. It is dependable, accurate and built well. I can’t wait until I can get my hands on the 45 rifle. It is so dependable I carry it in my patrol car when on duty.
Ol jim hisse …. you are an idiot! Birdshot? Really? WTF?
There are some people who think it is better than buck or slugs. Sad, but true. Fact is that the folk who think this are often folk who have never shot anything that is moving or at a distance with a shotgun. They can only speculate and think that birdshot is fine in self defense situations. A few reasons why they are wrong:
1: Birdshot is designed to kill birds. I shoot quail and grouse. For these you would use target or skeet loads so as not to make the bird a mist on the horizon. If I shot at a turkey, duck or goose with the same load I am apt to wound and never find that bird again. Still some folk think that birdshot will work well on people even though it is designed to penetrate about 1/2 an inch into a bird within the specified load range (duck – BB, Quail – #8, etc. ).
2: Siting #1, What if you do not kill the person with the first shot? What if your warning shot has done nothing but enrage the crazed crack/meth head? Who is unnerved and scared then? Can you take the second shot knowing what you now face? Can you look away from the mess you made and fire? My bet is that if you were half confident on the first shot you are shitting your pants on the second.
3: Siting #1 and #2, So lets say you hit them with the birdshot. You hit them and they don’t go down and you can take the second with the ‘real’ load and you kill them? So they are down and you call the police and they are wondering why it took you two shots (that hit) with a shotgun to down/kill someone. You tell them that the first load was to scare them. The police respond with, ‘So it wasn’t a self defense situation but rather you wanted to harken back to the days of salt guns and apple trees?’ So now you are arrested for all kinds of charges because you convoluted the situation by deviating from the standard load that law enforcement and military use all over the world because you thought you knew better. So you didn’t say anything and you are in court and the evidence speaks for itself. What then? Is birdshot still a good self defense load? In my opinion, no.
4: Blah blah… most people can hardly rack a gun when they are scared. No, you don’t know that. You think that. Blah blah… most people can’t aim right and can’t look down the barrel when in a stress or scare situation. No? I can. And I am sure anyone who has trained or hunted that way would find it very odd to firing a shotgun from the hip. Why would your instinct be to do that when you have shot different every other time? Again, what you think, not reality for most. Blah blah… most people need birdshot to hit the target and it is easier to hit with No, not true. Get outside. Shoot some skeet. You will see why people love to shoot shotgun. Here is a hint: It is because they hit a great deal more than they miss! I can shoot a 90 mm clay doing 50 miles an hour if I lead it right – with a slug. Heck, Yes! It is a hard shot but put in some 00 buck and I am on cheat mode. Most people would be. I have only shot clays five times now.
To sum up: Use what the police and military use. It saves you time, hassle (legal and mental) and it works.
-Buuurr
P.S.
If you really are just wanting something to scatter and make sure you hit. Go with magnum loads of #1 shot. The extra oomph makes for pellet deformation and extra barrel scrubbing resulting in a scattered/erratic pattern. Oddly enough this applies to most loads of birdshot, discrediting the thought that birdshot is great for self defense because it fractures the ‘all-at-once’ hit theory. This is because the pellets sort of ooze out of the barrel with bird loads that are not low recoil or target. So what you get is your shotgun becoming more or less a steel squirt gun of sorts. This obviously (for me) is not as dramatic as nine or six or three .33 round balls hitting you all at once. One would think.
You thinking too hard. Most of the people using bird shot do so for the fear of over penetration. Its a fact birdshot is not going to shoot your kids sleeping down the hall when 00 buck is going straight through your home.
I dunno about you but I would rather pump 5 rounds into someone that to send one round anywhere near my kids.
Seconded on what Jack wrote.
The only real reason for anything larger than birdshot in a home defense shotgun would be if you intended to shoot bad guys beyond 20 yards, in which case most likely you are not really in a home defense situation at all.
I can guarantee anyone shot with a full charge of even number 8 or 9 shot at typical home defense ranges in the torso or head is going DOWN and STAYING down, and it won’t penetrate an inadequate 1/2″ when it does, not at typical home defense distance.
Or you can be stubborn, load up a full tube of 3″ magnums throwing 00 or 000, and send pellets clear through multiple walls into your kids’ rooms or even through your outer walls into any unfortunate and likewise innocent souls outside.
I like mine, shoots great, price is right!
I’m a budget minded purpose driven gun owner and the Hipoint 4595 was my choice for a mid-range budget rifle that uses ammo common with two of my handguns. Out of the box my new 4595 TS was way low and to the left with the iron sights. Used a bore-sight laser to tweak the sights in. Dead on at 50 yds with 4″ rapid fire patterns. Slow fire, leaning, I put the rounds so close I couldn’t really detect all of them after retrieving the target. This is a heavy and ugly gun especially when I added the stock mounted extra clip loads and laser sight, but the weight keeps recoil down and a prone or leaning shooter with a laser or scope could easily knock down bad guys moving fast at 100 yds. Standing, I would recommend sticking to still targets or those inside 50 yds as there is some physical effort required to remain on target. It is fun to shoot and 200 rounds went through it without single misfeed or misfire. About the only thing I don’t like about it is the bolt hold-back feature when it is empty. You have to drop the spent magazine, pull and release the bolt, insert a fresh magazine, pull and release the bolt before you can fire. This takes a bunch of time you might better spend on a threat down-range and could get a lone defender killed quickly. No, you can’t just swap magazines and pull the bolt and no, you can’t pull the bolt from the hold-back position with any magazine inserted, fresh or spent.
As for home defense, the LCP in my pocket or the P90 in the car or next to the bed get that job unless they are just buying me time to yank the HiPoint out of the safe. The shotgun will probably never see any home defense action as that 4595 is now my short-medium range rifle of choice. For long range I like the Remington 770 auto in .308 with an extended magazine. I’ll be upgrading my LCP to a Taurus PT 145 for my conceal carry soon as 10 .45 rounds sounds better than 6 .380 rounds at hand and that will probably be the end of my gun purchases unless they invent something completely new that no one should be without.
High Point carbines are fine…they could lighten them but the problem is with the cheap magazines and the inability to load then quicky becuase the loading shot in the pistol grip is to tight so after amrket high capacitymagazines will not fit properly…I spoke with a company rep that admitted. The .45 is out and if your smart enough you can use 1911A! 10 shot and 15 shot mahazines with a minor adjustment….the dam things should have been made to take glock or other type magazines if they can’t produce a magazine worth a poop. I sold my 9mm carbine for the price I paid for it becuase I had put extras on it and had 11 magazines as the springs where so weak I could not leave one loaded more then a night and had to keep changing them….my wislon 1911A1 magazine stays loaded for days and no problem….also Keltec 2000 carbines are selling like hot cakes for as little as $222 not $400 dollars a piece thats why you can’t find a 9mm or .40 cal Keltec 2000…you can’t find any keltecs…they sale to fast and cheaper then the MSRP. a 7 lb carbine is not for small women and kids nor can it out shoot a shotgun you can put a simple limbsaver recoil pad on a shot gun and reduce the recoil by 60-75%…..I got kids shooting 3 inch magnums with my shotgun no problem hitting evverything….the Highpoint sights are not decent for people not used to being around guns….still a there are .45 carbines made you just buy it to add to you Glock or 1911…and theya re made in almsot every pistol caliber.
I’ve been doing alot of reading lately in regard to the Hi-Point carbines and all internet trash talk aside, the more I read the more I like. Still reading and researching as I’m torn yet on caliber as this purchase will likely double as a better defense gun for my (active, alert, gun-toting) 77yr. old mother. A 12 gauge is out at this point in her life and yes, at my home nearby that’s my choice as I’m one of those recoil insensitive types who actually enjoys the big boom (3″ Federal 000 boom). Mom’s current pick is an unwieldy 26″ bbl. repeater in 30-30 that’s probably a bigger threat to the new neighborhood than an intruder. Definitely unsuitable for the close quarters of her modest home. A .45 carbine shouldn’t be a problem but I’m leaning towards the .40 for an important aspect the author pointed out regarding shotguns.
Noise and the follow-up shot. Not many folks get the priveledge of shooting indoors, in low light. Add a powerful cartridge with no hearing protection or colored glasses. Doesn’t matter if it’s sheetrock, plaster on brick, or an old sturdy barn. Noise and flash are quite the distraction. Provided you’re trying to protect yourself and those you love adds more adrenaline. Yet another distraction that we can only hope we’re prepared for should the need arise. (Why do the SWAT guys have suppressors? It’s not to be neighborly. A standard 9mm auto pistol fired inside a dwelling sounds as close to a bomb as the unititiated might ever believe!)
But as the author asked in his title “Are Handgun Caliber Rifles the New Home Defense Shotgun?” I think it’s a close tie. For my mom or my girlfriend absolutely and I’m not remotely trying to be sexist. They both shoot but not as often or with as much enthusiasm as myself. I’ll add that I carry a .compact .45 as it’s easier to conceal than the .357 that I traded. Do I believe a 12 gauge to be a better home defense piece than my carry caliber or one of these little carbines? Not at all, I’m just used to my scattergun. Perhaps this next purchase will change my mind completely and I’ll go out and buy a field bbl. and some choke tubes for the shotgun. I’d rather shoot rabbits anyway.
Happy New Year!
Just picked up the 4595 a couple of weeks ago. I’ve only had it out once, but it’s a blast. Ran a few patches down the barrel and hit the range. It ate all hundred rounds that I ran through it with no difficulty. At bench-rest, it took a few minutes to zero the sights at 50 yards. Then I was able to hit 4″ groups with the iron sights. Put on laser (close combat) and red dot (medium range) easily. Trying them out this weekend. Under $300 with forward grip. Can’t complain. Having another gun that shoots the same .45ACP as my 1911 is a nice bonus.
As a smaller-framed male I can say its about gun-love, not the frame that dictates a users ability. I’ve shot, and loved firearms, since I was a young boy, and even well before the age of 16, when I reached the towering height of 4’8″, I fired shotguns, .357s and .45s. I even got a .50 cal in too, but that doesn’t count cause it was on a tripod.
Love your website. I will be back often!
I have been considering the 30 Highpoint for my wife. Hand gun wise, she tops out with a 22 mag. My question is, could she handle the 45 recoil wise?
Hi Point firearms are average firearms at below average prices… In fact, the model 4595TS a .45 ACP carbine is just what the doctor ordered for home defense for anyone too timid for a shotgun. I’m retired LE and I’ve had numerous handguns over the past 30 years… Presently, I carry a 45ACP Glock Model 30SF loaded with Federal Classic 158gr. JHP… However, I don’t care what a handgun cost or what it looks like. If it goes bang and it’s fairly accurate, it will do the job just fine… Additionally, most legal handgun owners are rarely trained or routinely practice with their firearms… If you own a handgun, KNOW IT, USE IT, CLEAN IT AND ABOVE ALL, SECURE IT!!! Most handguns used in crimes are stolen from STUPID people (some with badges) who probably shouldn’t own one in the first place… By the way, if you want a handgun for home protection and your not willing or able to get the proper training, FORGET IT!!! When your hands start shaking and you crapping your pants (adrenaline shock), your not going to make the shot!!! Do yourself a favor and get a 12 gauge 18.5″ pump action shotgun and load it up with HIGH QUALITY / FRANGIBLE / LOW RECOIL / 00 BUCKSHOT… Point and shot is all you’ll need to do to eliminate or stop the “problem”… Furthermore, if you do a “REAL LOUD RACKING” of your shotgun just prior to confrontation, you’ll probably never need to fire a round… EVERYONE KNOWS TO RESPECT THAT SOUND OR IT MAY BE THE LAST SOUND THEY HEAR!!! Whatever firearm you choose, GET TRAINING!!
NEVER FORGET 9-11 and keep an eye on the enemy within!!!